Old Petrol/Flooded engine

  • Hello All,


    I've had the 8 garaged for the last 3 or so years. Started it occasionally just to move it around the garage; for the last year, not started it at all! Batteries died, so bought some new ones 'cause I want now to get it back on the road. Car won't start, turning over strongly but no spark at all! Looking at Timms meeknet site, I suspect that the engine has flooded, all fits, cold starts, little travel, and hot ambient temperature. Thing is, is it worth going through the operation of 'unflooding' it with the current petrol, 20 litres of 3 year old 95, and I just put another 20 litres of 98 in hoping it would make up the difference?

    01/1994 E31 840i M60 European LHD automatic, prod code EF61

  • If you can purchase Seafoam, I would suggest adding a can to the tank.

    BMW 850 CSi
    BMW 8er.org Clubs International (B8CI) Board Representative, USA and North America
    Editor, E31 NEWS International E31 Newsletter

  • Cheers fellas, but academic at this point. Tried starting it anyway using Timm's method, but no joy! The plugs weren't wet, well barely, so fuel not getting through. Back to the internet to research... Hope it's not the Drive Away Protection System (EWS) set-up as I've read some stuff about!?

    01/1994 E31 840i M60 European LHD automatic, prod code EF61

  • You may also want to change the fuel filters located just in front of the back left wheel well.

    BMW 850 CSi
    BMW 8er.org Clubs International (B8CI) Board Representative, USA and North America
    Editor, E31 NEWS International E31 Newsletter

  • Ok, so had my ear literally sitting on top of the fuel pump housing while someone else turned the key. No noise, no clicking, whirring, or humming, nada! Also now know that it's definitely fuel starvation as sprayed some Easystart into the air intake, and it fires up. I assume this rules out a problem with the Drive Away Protection System (EWS) set-up, I would assume that would retard the firing as apposed to the fuel feed? Only had time tonight to pop in for a minute, so tomorrow I'll check the fuel pump fuse. Timm has a diagram of the fuse layouts on his site, but it appears to be for a V12 as it lists fuses for pots 1-6 and 7-12, but I'm sure I'll be able to find somewhere guides for the 840. Would love for it to be a fuse, and not the pump; I believe €500 for a fuel pump!? Are the pumps known to cease with disuse?

    01/1994 E31 840i M60 European LHD automatic, prod code EF61

  • Come on - keep up with the latest additions:


    http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e31/Timms_BMW_E31_Fuse_Finder.htm


    The fuel pump is top of the list, but you never know your luck with the fuse (Fuse 23 on the V8)

  • Hello Timm,


    Ahh, now I see. Fuse 24 will be missing in mine as it's a V8. Was checking a 2014 post earlier that you contributed to. A guy sourced a pump from the states for $70 that fits into the BMW in-tank fuel pump housing. There was an Ebay link, but unfortunately that pump now not available! Does anyone know of others that can be 'hacked' into the in-tank fuel pump housing? I also read another old post from Noggie I think it was where the in-line fuse thingymajig from the right-hand side battery had cracked. I can check that also i guess. I've had the old batteries in and out of the car a number of times, so maybe that's cracked. I guess the best way to determine whether pump, or elsewhere is at fault will be to test if power is actually getting to the fuel pump when ignition tuned on, if so, pump, if not, something else wrong?

    01/1994 E31 840i M60 European LHD automatic, prod code EF61

  • Here is a Link to Bimmerforum Thread
    There you can see how it looks, when it's disassembled.
    You can probe the fuel pump by applying 12V to the pins. (belonging to the black connector)


    If it's the pump:
    Here is a Link to a Bosch Fuel Pump


    As I know, it is possible to replace only the pump in the unit but it's not that simple.
    Here is a link to a how-to (scroll to the end, to get the link for the images)
    The plastic might be brittle after so many years so handle with care.


    Good Luck!


    Cheers
    Steve

  • And remember that some circuits are constant/ignition on power with the ground switched on and off to make it work.

    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others. Mine sometimes feels that way.


    Terry


    1995 840Ci
    1991 850i
    Woodland Washington USA

  • Took out the back seat, and checked the terminals going into the pump, 12.56 volts when cranking. Connected the pump direct to a 12V source, and nothing. Reversed polarity, and a click, return it to correct polarity, and another little click, so I assume the jury's out, the pump has seized! Ordered a new one, but away on holiday this week for a couple of weeks, so on return will carefully take out the sender unit and replace the pump. Thanks for the help, will update once firing on all 8's, hopefully no sender bits are going to disintegrate in my hands. Tell you what, it's bloody cramped working in that rear seat well!!!

    01/1994 E31 840i M60 European LHD automatic, prod code EF61

  • Saga continues!!!


    Because of assuming I had a flooded engine, the new batteries that I bought were a bit depleted after performing the 'flooded engine start' procedure. Before going on holiday I decided to connect the CTek charger so that nice and charged when I return. On my return, the exclamation light on the charger was lit meaning that there's a problem!
    Took both batteries out and tried charging individually, but both come up with the fault! I thought that maybe the batteries were bad, they were Energizer Premium EM 72AH 680A, but on special offer via Norauto (Spain's version of Halfords), nearly half normal price. I thought maybe they'd been sitting on their shelves for ages! I then realised that while away, and the charger being attached to the charging ports, I'd left the ignition switched to position 2. Would this destroy the batteries?

    01/1994 E31 840i M60 European LHD automatic, prod code EF61

  • I guess it would depend on what was running with the ignition in position 2 because everything will be alive in that position. If the drain on the batteries is then greater than the charger can input then yes, you will have drained the batteries and then some.

  • Your batteries are probably deep discharged and sulfated.
    Some CTEKs offer a recondition mode but I would not use that.
    Years ago I bought a battery refresher, which brought back some of my batteries from death.
    It removes a small amount of current from the battery (when the battery is charged normally) and loads it back with a high frequency.
    This way it breaks up the sulfate crystals and the battery gets back to a usable condition.


    I can highly recommend it and as I know there are others here who managed to save discharged batteries with it.
    Link in Spanish Amazon
    Link in UK Amazon


    Good Luck
    Steve

  • Hello Steve,


    Thanks for that. I did try the recondition programme on my Ctek, but fault light coming on! Do you know if the batteries are brought back to full working order using the regenerator? I've read a few articles on the forums saying that the batteries in the 8's have to be absolutely top-notch condition or else all kinds of faults start appearing.

    01/1994 E31 840i M60 European LHD automatic, prod code EF61

  • Hello Ivan,


    yes, the Batteries should be in a good condition, otherwise glitches can occur.
    I only have two 840 V8s and they are not that picky about battery level. Probably the V12s are a bit more prone to erratic behavior due to low voltage.
    I managed to deep discharge a set of batteries in one of my 8 and they were pretty ruined. (They could not provide starting power even if freshly loaded.)
    After I charged them 4 days each with the refresher, they became usable again and I still have them in the car.


    Can you charge each of them one by one (out of the car) normally (with the NORMAL instead of with the Recond mode)?
    If yes, it might work with the refresher.
    If not, then they are gone.


    Charging both of them together in the car is not very useful because one could be defect and the other one get's more juice from the charger then it can handle because the CTEK doesn't know that it charges two batteries.
    Always recharge completely discharged batteries one by one, outside of the car.


    Cheers,
    Steve

  • Hello Steve,


    Yup, tried charging them separately with the Ctek out of the car. Both coming up with the fault light. Tried then recondition mode on both, and same. They're both charging to around the 11V mark though, and are holding the charge? I tried one of them in the missus' Ford Fusion, but no start! If I get a regenerator, I assume I'll be connecting the charger and regenerator, to the each battery in turn, like so...?

  • Yes, exactly. The CTEK charges the battery normally, and the refresher pulsates a little bit of the current back in the battery.
    The refresher needs at least 13 V charging voltage, so let's hope that the batteries take that much. (The charging voltage is not the same as the actual voltage a battery holds after the charge).
    If you don't mind the 80 Euros, give it a try. It might take a couple of days charging and even if the CTEK gives an error after a while, try it again.
    As long as the green LED light up on the refresher, it does it's thing and slowly breaks down the crystals.


    Even if it doesn't work on this two batteries, you can keep the refresher connected in the car as well (to one battery at a time).
    I have it in my 525d normally and it keeps my battery at a good condition there. I only remove it, when I need to get some life back in my 8 series batteries.
    Cheers

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