How many miles do these cars usually get ?
91-92 850i Common probs to avoid at purchase ?
91 E31 against a 93 SC400 ? Comparisons ? Interesting advices...
SUGGESTIONS
BMW dealer with the VIN number to attempt to get service records on the car
(only works if they serviced it at BMW dealership)
Carfax to see owner history
(be careful--some information may be incorrect--GIGO applies to the information network)
If you decide to purchase the car then the Ressources available on this site will sure be of benefit.
INSPECTION ITEMS
Under the hood :
Check fluid levels:
Oil, coolant, hydraulic oil, gearbox oil on standard, ATF level on automatics, differential oil, brake fluid, windshield washer fluid and intensive washer fluid
(auxiliary tank in trunk on Eurospecs)
Surging at idle, rough idle--leaking manifold gaskets, DK motor fault, faulty fuel pressure reg., leak in air cleaner assembly, air temp sensor, etc
Gasoline smell from engine compartment--check for leaking charcoal canister, fuel lines, leaking injectors, leaking fuel pressure regulators
(best to look under injector cover also)
Check the oil--see if it is at least somewhat clean and proper level
Check for leaks in windshield washer bottle (is it holding water?)
Check chain tensioner for leaking oil
It may or may not have a black hollow tube leading out from it (called anti-tamper key)
Chain tensioner is found immediately above air-conditioning compressor
Common leak point. More of an annoyance than maintenance issue
Check for any fluid leaks from hydraulic assembly found on driver side mounted by wheel well
Common leaks can occur from pressure switches found on the hydraulic pressure regulator assembly
(they have wires running to them)
Check for smooth idle
In America you should be able to balance a nickel on its side on the injector cover without it falling over if the engine is idling correctly
Run car to normal operating temperature and turn on A/C
The auxiliary fan found in front of the radiator should switch on
Also, if the temperature gauge on the dash goes above midpoint when idling but goes down when on the road, and the auxiliary fan is working properly, a new fan clutch my be needed
If the overheat condition is alleviated by revving the engine, this MAY be a stuck or broken thermostat
Check all hoses, wires, wire/hose harnesses, and connectors for cracks, etc.
H headlight assemblies should line up vertically and within their openings on the hood when retracted. When up, they should be level with each other.
Check operation of all lights, headlights should not move in their shrouds
If they do move, then you may need new adjusters (original are plastic on US specs cars)
Metal adjusters have become available from a 3rd party
Suspension, drivetrain, exhaust, and braking systems:
Wobble in steering when accelerating or decelerating--can be unbalanced tires, warped rotors, bent wheels, loose suspension parts, or old bushings.
In rare cases, shocks can cause this also.
Jam on the brakes fast and hard.--if real hard pedal then normal pedal travel --possible nitrogen bomb (accumulator), pressure solenoid or vacuum problem.
Check tire wear--gives a great indication of front suspension problems (assumes SOME tire wear)
Crinkling or "tinking" sound when car first takes off in reverse or forward--needs new BMW alternative to U-joints on the drive shaft
(called Joint Disc or Guibo)
Some models have the joint disc, some have U-joints.
Rattling from front end when going over bumps--bad bushings and/or needs new struts (check bushings first!)
Also check for missing brake pad clamps.
Check for hard steering and squealing noise if wheel turned far right
(check hydraulic fluid level )
Be sure to check under car and look at exhaust system from engine all the way back to tailpipes for rust-contact on body, etc.
Run finger around inside rim of exhaust on both sides
Normal state is dry and greyish/white
Oily or black/sooty may indicate oil consumption/burning
From interior of car:
Open sunroof in both positions (up and back)
All operation should be smooth and when closed the sunroof should line up with roof of car
Check for rust points around rim of sunroof and for tight sunroof gasket (no splits or separations)
If a 6 speed, 2nd gear can be a little notchy until warm
(but you can use this to "show" the seller to reduce the price--as well as pulling the knob up and off will take off the knob and boot! Makes it look like the car is falling apart, but it is actually that way normally?!)
Check onboard computer for bad pixels
Check radio and CD player (bring 6 CD's if it has a changer to check all)
Operate all windows, steering wheel, and seat positions--especially seat base up and down travel
Steering wheel should move up and down, in and out.
Check memory function (on left of driver seat )
Steering wheel should elevate when the car is shut off and parking brake is applied.
Right side mirror should tilt down when reverse is selected and mirror adjustment selector is set to left
Check for rust points around windshield or rear windshield by opening hood and trunk
If glass looks better than it should for age of vehicle, check for leaks by going through a carwash or using pressurized spray
Check air conditioning and heating--turn blower on full, low airflow indicates a need for new micro filter and implies poor maintenance
Check for cold AND hot air coming out of all vents by switching between A/C and heat
Failure of either heat or cold to come out of either side (driver or passenger) vents on dash indicates a possible HVAC repair that requires removal of the dashboard
Cosmetic:
Check rubber window gasket--tears easily where rear window seats-- expensive to fix
Check hatrack (rear deck) and headliner for loose fabric
Check for loose vinyl or leather trim (seems to be a common problem in all BMW's)
Check for overspray of paint on any gaskets or rubber contact points in hood or trunk area (will show if has been re-painted)
Burn marks or felt repair on headliner, pillar covers, felt window liner, etc.
Check for even the tiniest point of rust ANYWHERE on the car and under the car.
You should not find any rust on the body ANYWHERE. However, the exhaust is prone to rusting. Normal.
Paint condition
Door dings
Rock chips on front of car--two edged sword. Ugly and expensive to repair but actually indicates more highway mileage, which in my book is a GOOD thing mechanically
"justaguyinokc@aol.com"
'92 Laguna Green 850i 6spd
How many miles do these cars usually get ?
Well, I have put 260,000 miles on a 1980 Datsun 280ZX, I have 245,000 miles on my '91 T-Bird, and 130,000 miles on my 850. I expect all my cars to get well over 250,000 miles (highway, highway, highway). The 850 will get a new engine rebuild when it dies. That is much cheaper than buying another 850 and I know how this one has been treated/maintained. Maintenance is ALWAYS less expensive than buying new. Let's see. The newest closest alternative to the 8 (in my view) is the 750i at approx. 90K. at even 400.00USD per month maintenance on my 850, that comes out to about 225 months or over 18 years of maintenance!!! Besides, I expect to end up with an extremely rare classic in 20 years.
Jim S.
'92 Laguna Green 850i 6 spd. 129,000 miles
91-92 850i Common probs to avoid at purchase?
The best thing to do is look through the archives here. You'll find most of the common things to worry about and look at. However, most common wear items on the 8's are mileage related, so a low mile '91, if it's a 5%er (search under "95/5" for explanations) should be basically trouble free. Besides exterior/interior stuff, items to be aware of as the car get's older are DK motors, belt tensioners, headlight buckets, seat cables, intake manifold leaks, and on..... A well maintained 8 is actually very reliable (read posts about limp-home features), and most of us have found that the public opinion about these cars being HIGH maintenance is just plain garbage. Parts are expensive and sometimes hard to find, but remember, you'll be buying a classic BMW so expect to have to open mr. wallet more than you would for say, a used Lexus.
And repeat the mantra: (no offense meant to -40 guys & gals)
"I JUST HAVE TO OWN A V-12 AT LEAST ONCE IN MY LIFE!!"
Stan C.
'92 850iA
91 E31 against a 93 SC400 ? Comparisons ? Interesting advices...
I have a 93 SC400 right now.
I'm looking to get a 91 E31. I posted about the 3 diff ones I was looking at.
I was probably going to make an offer on the blk/blk one with 60K for 28K.
I have done some exhaust and wheels to my SC400 and it looks like none other.
IT's got 250 HP..and does a late 6 0-60.
I was wondering if people could give me their pros and cons about my want to get a 91 E31 instead of my SC.
Interior examples, performance, style, intangible, MPG, etc. Anything you can provide.
Obviously you can see I'm caught in indecision right now. Would appreciate your input.
Michael
Every car has its merits.
It is hard to argue that two cars of the same class are any better than another without including personal preference.
There are many "enthusiasts" that are not willing to accept that there are good points to each car.
IMHO, there are 2 major questions that one must ask when buying a car...
1. What is the car's PRIMARY purpose?
2. Does my driving style/preferences/skill align myself with that purpose?
3. Does this car achieve that purpose better than all the other cars in it's class?
Of course, there are many insubstantial subjective judgements required here. Our opinions and experiences are merely tools that can be used to help make your decision, but it is still yours. So, my thoughts.
The E31 is no race car. It is a very sporty, touring/luxury car.
The SC400 is more of a "race"-oriented vehicle than the E31.
After driving the SC400, I was thinking about what kind of coil-over's I would use to dial out the slight oversteer.
After driving the E31 I find myself thinking that I really should take a road trip to Maine with the car.
Just the immense weight of the E31 lends itself to a very subdued feeling of performance... much like the early 3000GT's.
The SC400 gives you much more feedback than the E31... never thought you'd here that the SC400 gives you more feedback than anything else, did ya?
Obviousy, I like the E31... it aligns with what I was looking for.
Very comfortable, but throws it down if I need to.
It's not an inspiring performer, but then again, that wasn't it's PRIMARY purpose... no 2-ton car is going to be an inspiring performer.
But, it handles well, accelerates well, and is comfortable.
Seems like everything you might want? As long as you realize that this car is NOT in league with Porchse and Ferrari (as far as driving experience) you will enjoy it for what it is.
I don't plan on getting rid of my E31 (I just got it, anyway), even though I am now shopping for a F355... they are just two different cars... all the way down to their purpose.
Justin Glatz
I just purchased a '92 E31 850i six speed
Here's MHO:
On one side of the scale you have:
Porsche: Go carts... short drives, feel every bump in the road, seat of your pants fun.
On the other:
Lexus: Smooth driving cruisers that leave little room for error or much feedback. Maybe even a little sedate without modifications.
In the middle:
BMW: Comfortable, fast, unobtrusive autos with a solid feel.
BMW is the ultimate compromise auto:
Great for long trips, bumper to bumper traffic, and valets... but they can throw down when pushed really hard.
Sorta what a guy looks for in a women:
Very well put together (Classy) when out in public... but a real slut in bed (but just with you).
I've owned A LOT of autos from one end of the scale to the other and I keep going back to BMW.
They are a bit more $ to maintain (like any classy woman), but they will continue to be loyal and take very good care of you.
I just went from a 535i (fast, nimble, classy) to the E31. No regrets.
It's everything I wanted
Valets love 'em, people think they are a new model and auto fanatics respect them.... that aside I LOVE IT.
I have never cared too much what others think of what I drive (my '78 Pea-Green Porsche 911 SC Targa... ugly! is a perfect example) and the same holds true for the E31.
They really came to market at a time (early 1990's) when you either bought an SUV or went the total other direction and got a 2 seater convertable with zero room.
Weird how the public works.
We are the outsiders. We go against the grain.
We are the E31 owners that tell the public to F-off every time we hit the road in our love-it-but-would-never-own-it BMW 8s.
If you get one, welcome to the rebellion.
Sean
'92 850i
'97 328i
I have a 93 SC400 right now. I'm looking to get a 91 E31.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. As moderator of the E31 e-mail list and an owner of a 1991 850i, I can assure you that you are looking at a MJAOR increase in maintenance costs. I've never owned a Lexus, but my understanding is that they are very, very reliable cars. Not so with the E31, which requires upkeep and lots of it. That doesn't mean the E31 is a bad car. It's just a difference in design philosophy. My car is maintained by a quality independent shop and it has 72,000 miles on it. And I average about $200 per month in upkeep. Unless you can tolerate that *and* the associated downtime, stick with the Lexus.
I was wondering if people could give me their pros and cons about my want to get a 91 E31 instead of my SC. Interior examples, performance, style, intangible, MPG, etc.
The E31 interior is of a very traditional design, with a high window sill and a large center console. Headroom is limited, so if you prefer a NASCAR style upright seating position, you'd better be under 5'7".
Performance, as others have noted, is superb for a big, honking GT car that weighs as much as a Crown Victoria. If you want a tossable, nimble sports car you should purchase an //M3. But if you want an Autobahnstormer that is utterly, totally, dependably solid at 90 mph and up, the E31 is ideal. (Provided you travel light. If you have lots of passengers or baggage, consider an //M5 or a 740i Sport.)
Style is unsurpassed. The E31 is a very, vary rare car and its styling is (IMHO) timeless. So if you buy one, you'd better be prepared to answer lots of questions from car guys every time you buy gas.
Intangible -- Owning an E31 is what Wall Street people would call a "contrarian play." Big, broad-shouldered coupes are very much OUT of favor these days. Instead, everybody wants to drive a boxy SUV. But if you are truly a car afficianado, you have to admit that you've always wanted to own a V-12 car. There is NOTHING that can compare to the smoothness and torque of the E31's powerplant.
MPG -- On my 1991 850i, I get 13-15 mpg in town and 17-18 on the highway. Given the very high maintenance costs, fuel burn will be the least of your worries.
Paul Michael Brown
My SC400 averages about 200 a month in upkeep too.
Well..I drove it nearly 30 thousand miles in the last year..so that might have something to do with it...but the reason is cuz I got somewhat of a lemon...a repo'd car with faulty wiring and
makeshift stuff hidden in places.
I don't really forsee upkeep of the E31 being any more drastic than getting a whole new wire harness for my SC400 steering column. It IS true though that the car's engine is fine. HOwever the transmission JUMPS when downshifting to first..and that..I've never seen on any car..let alone a japanese luxury coupe. Must be part of the repo incident.
Anyhow..about the E31. I'm probably going to buy
a blk/blk 91 E31 with 67 miles on it. The owner was a lady who took very good care of it...
She has had no problems with it and just took it to frequent oil changes. I have a question.
Just at 74 thousand miles on my 94 325..a lot of "minor" annoying things happened to break down..brakes, wheels, rattling in the interior..
parts loosening. All of this happened conveniently AFTER the warranty.
I wonder if the same TIMELY trend will happen with the E31 since she's had not real problems
as I did prior to 70K miles.
What exactly did you have done to average that per month? could you elaborate for me?
I'm grateful for your advice so I can be forewarned for what I'm getting into.
But I agree..the cars looks are timeless and I've been in love with that car for almost a decade.
I get 20-22 mpg in my SC400 so it's not THAT bad of a dropoff considering it's a thirsty V-12 and a BMW.
Michael
I have a question. Just at 74 thousand miles on my 94 325, a lot of "minor" annoying things happened to break down..brakes, wheels, rattling in the interior. . .
I wonder if the same TIMELY trend will happen with the E31.
Yes. You have to remember that despite the low mileage, the car you are looking at is still eight years old.
My 1991 850i has about 73,000 miles on it and in the past year I've done the following: brake pads all around, front brake rotors, rear differential seal, exhausts on both sides, front suspension rebuild with new parts including bushings, new tires and a visit from the paintless dent guru
Plus the usual oil change, autobox flush, coolant flush, brake fluid flush.
In the wings: replacing the EDC shocks with conventional units, fixing the misrigged adjustment cable on the passenger seat, replacing both batteries and diagnosing a possibly bad power steering pump.
I'm not a DYI guy, so I have every last little thing done by a superb independent shop outside Washington, D.C. Granted, that runs up my costs a little bit. But it's still a big chunk of change. Sure, you can buy a 1991 E31 for $25K, but when it lands in the shop it's still an $80K car. I can afford the shop bills and my car isn't a daily driver so the downtime doesn't matter. Not everybody can say the same.
Paul Michael Brown
Moderator, E31 e-mail list
Additional information and another Buyers Guide is available at http://www.e31faq.com/
_________________
It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others. Mine sometimes feels that way.
Terry
1995 840Ci
Aloha Oregon USA
www.e31faq.com
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www.8coupe.com
