After six great years I've decided to part with my '97 CI Sport having realised as I renew the MOT that last year I did less than 500 miles. What's your opinion as to the best place to advertise? To any new owners out there in the UK: Where did you find your car and how did you become aware of the E31 in the first place? Any input greatly appreciated as the silence from Auto Trader is deafening!
Best Regards to All
just watched it. There's no such thing as bad publicity. All I know is tonight ten million people got an eyeful of why my car is so beatuiful.
I have so much sympathy for anyone dealing with this problem; what hasn't been mentioned so far in these two parallel threads is the possibility that the fault lies in the ECU itself. It's a bugger, but it has to be faced in some cases.
I wasn't the first (nor will I be the last) to ignore the ECU. Naturally, we all want to find another cause due to the cost involved in a new replacement; somewhere on here is a detailed account of how to isolate the fault in this unit on the 840Ci. It's definitely worth a read if you've got the time and are at that stage where you are pulling your hair out because you've just changed something (a relay, wheel sensors, cleaning the contacts... etc) and it looks like "the" fix, only for this moment of euphoria to be followed within minutes by the dreaded "oh, no"....
The car will run OK without the unit if you decide to disconnect it. There's a great company in Kent who know how it works and will fix any faults for a reasonable price, re-seal it and send it back with a 2-year guarantee. Usually the problem is internal condensation and associated corrosion of the contacts on the circuit board. My part was sent to them in October 2007 and it hasn't put a foot wrong since then:
Bosch ABS/ASC ECU Version 5.0, Part No. 0 265 109 022. The total cost then was £108.50 plus VAT.
They are at www.bba-reman.com.
1997 build, BMW 840Ci 4398cc, 82K on the clock.
2 named drivers: male aged 52, female aged 52.
Fully comp with legal cover and protected NCD.
Up to 10,000 miles per annum.
Declared value "£5K to £30K".
Max NCD of 60% for 5 years.
Annual premium: £348.98 (that's three hundred forty-eight sterling)
On-line through swiftcover, part of AXA.
Edited to add: Just realised that mine is actually a second car with its own NCD history, so not 100% applicable to the original post. Still good value, though, as they don't treat it as a "classic" or special: hence the high limits on mileage and value.
OK, low-beam problem solved. Posting this for future benefit of someone else.....
That's the culprit, above, courtesy of an advert for one on ebay U.S. Part number 61.35-1-383-412, 12V Lampenkontrolmodul-2. Contains, amongst other stuff, headlight activation control, dipped beam relays, fog-lamp relays, etc, etc - quite a lot in one box, hence the price tag of £305 + Vat here in the UK. (Makes the one on ebay quite a steal at $75 - if it works).
Location, for the record, is behind the glove box, which therefore has to come out in its entirety, plus all the trim underneath. There are three control modules (all the same size, think VHS casette in size) and 412 is (you guessed it) right at the top, making it the hardest one of the three to get at.
How do you get to the Lamp Relay Module
The wiring diagram shows A3 located underneath and to the left of the steering wheel on a LHD car. Do you know where it would be exactly on RHD models? Just that taking off trim is not my specialised subject....
I suppose its to be expected - you don't use it for months through the winter and something goes wrong while it sits out there in the cold....
Please, has anyone seend this particular set of symptoms?
- Both low beams out, all other front lights OK.
- No check control warning.
- Both bulbs OK.
- Both buckets deploy normally on selecting 2nd switch position.
Quick look at wiring diagram shows component A3 "LAMP CONTROL MODULE" under the steering wheel area might be a suspect as it appears to contain the operating relays. Any input gratefully received.
SG
Faulty Glass, then
The saga is over - for now. At Autoglass's expense, BMW inspected the car and found the bottom near-side connector wire had broken away from the glass - clearly due to old corrosion. So the Autoglass expert then had a look and he agreed. What was not agreed was who was responsible for the faulty part. BMW said Autoglass must have knocked it. The evidence I saw suggested it had happened years ago in one of BMW's storage warehouses. Anyway, thats between them. I told Autoglass I wasn't keen on yet another piece of glass being fitted and that I would be happy with a soldered repair - as clearly there is only one connector that needed attention. They agreed but suggested a conductive epoxy resin instead. So I let them do it yesterday and I am pleased to say that I am now 100% happy with the result. After all, the repair is now guaranteed for life as it counts as "workmanship"! Oh yes, before I forget, Autoglass still had the old one so we had a look at that and guess what? The top nearside wire had indeed failed - but not at the glass, rather the spade end had come off the wire. The same fault - different end of the wire...
Lessons to share:
1) If you buy a new windscreen in the UK (from anyone, including BMW) then make sure it is sound at all connector points before having it fitted. These screens are "old" stock and therefore suspicious.
2) If any of your wires come off, the epoxy conductor resin solution appears to work.
Cheers.
Zitat von sprucegoose;67562Re MPG, I once did a test on the M6 and at a steady 75mph I eased 32mpg out of the old girl.
Forgot the important bit - that was using Shell 99 Ron. Worth a few extra pennies for the additional power and mpg in my book. Don't put anything else in now unless I have to.
Zitat von reinhard;67568You probably need a new screen.
Ho ho ho, missed the joke the first time! 
Actually....
T15 ~ E4
T20 ~ E5
T25 ~ E6
Pretty sure its the E5....
R, I've got both, but the one in the bedroom is, sadly, 4 x 3. Thanks, anyway.
Meanwhile, back to my problem - the glass or the electrics?
Zitat von sprucegoose;38188Guys, thanks a lot for those tips. Will post more when I hear from BMW.
Sincere apologies because it appears that I never followed up on my promise to get back to the club. Anyway, YES! I did get the MID replaced free of charge so anyone still with this problem in the UK should still be able to do the same. There is a precedent and I am it. Get in touch with BMW customer service UK and tell them that you want the same deal that they gave to the owner of CC66548 who had the unit replaced free at Vines Ltd of Crawley, West Sussex. They will likely ask you to go to your local BMW dealer because the protocol is that the garage has to make the application for the free replacement of this part. Don't be fobbed off. They do know about this problem at HQ, but be prepared for the dealer to claim ignorance. Its not a "general recall", so in fact they might well not know. But if you can sweet-talk the dealer into making the application for a goodwill replacement, then there's every chance that BMW UK will cough up. My car was 10 years old and I was the fifth owner - yet I still got it replaced.
Seb
Sorry for the delay, but just catching up on old posts. I had exactly the same problem. Its so easy with the right tools: what you'll need is the socket equivalent of a Torx drive. These sockets have E numbers starting at E4 (same size as T20 from memory), E5=T25 etc, etc. A big Halfords should do a set, otherwise get a factor to order in from catalogue. i.e. Draper etc. The two Torx-like studs on the outside of the binacle (E5?) move the entire suite of three lamps and its recommended in the service manual that you do this first to set the dip beams. Top stud is Up/down, bottom is left/right. When you are happy with the dips, remove the body-colour cover and take off the appropriate plastic cover to get at the main beams. There's just one stud and its a tight fit, but a small 1/4" ratchet drive plus E5 socket will get in to adjust the up/down aim. Should you then decide that you don't like the resultant fog-light aim you will have to remove the front glass which is held in place by 6 clips. Invest in a new gasket if you intend to do this BTW. There, behind the glass, but accessible only from the front, are the fog-light adjusters which are exactly the same as the others.
If you still need to do this and don't have the manual then PM me and I'll happily forward what you need. By the way, I got lucky on yet another (fruitless) trip looking for an E-socket set when, amazingly, I pulled up behind our local Snap-On Tools merchant's van on an industrial estate. I had the car with me, so I showed him what I needed and he sold me the wrench + socket set + 2 inch extension there and then. And he had a credit card machine! A little over £100 I felt was well spent - after all I think I've got the best aimed headlights on the fleet. And the tools really ARE guaranteed for life.
That reminds me, you will definitely need a 2 inch extension to get on the exterior studs.
Edited to add this: If you want to work on the headlights (i.e. glass removal) they need to be up, but obviously this need the lights to be on. Not a great combination. So put the dips on, next remove the fuse that controls the headlight up/down motor, then turn the lights off. Works a treat. I also got loads more light on the road by carefully wiping clean the hemispherical lenses and interior of the front glass. We need all the light we can get with this motor, as you know!
Reinhard, thanks for the extract from the manual. I used the same page when I applied the multi-meter to the wiring on the car. Either you or I have missed something - and I'm happy to be wrong - but please consider the following and let me know if you still think its the car's wiring.
1) Screen fitted August 2007 replaced original which. although milky and corroded, worked (in part) in BOTH sections.
2) Replacement failed completely after 23 months in TOP section. My tests (July 2009) showed:
a) 14.2V coming from the car on BOTH sections.
b) Open circuit across the glass in TOP section.
c) When power supplies reversed, TOP section still not working.
3) Second replacement fitted August 2009 has completely failed in BOTTOM section.
Now, because this is now definitely a warranty issue I cannot afford to touch anything and I don't intend to. But to my mind, the above facts point again to the glass as the prime suspect. Of course its not the only suspect because it is perfectly plausible that the power supply to the bottom section has decided to fail just 2 weeks after my tests. And life is a bitch like that as we all know and such random events tend to throw us off the scent. I am reminded (re ABS) of my earlier quote from Sherlock Holmes - "when you have eliminated all the impossibles, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth". So I accept that it might yet prove to be the case that the power supply to the bottom section has indeed failed - and how funny that would be - but the question is this: Given the history, do we think it is likely?
Either way I don't care because it will get fixed. Perhaps we could have a poll on Sprucie's window: Glass or Electrics?
I get to vote first. GLASS!
PS Reinhard, do you think you could remove your photo or reduce it in size as its making the thread difficult to read.
Oh NO, Oh NO!!!
Zitat von sprucegoose;67365But it wasn't just a few wires that failed after 2 years, it was the whole of the top section, implying a different type of electrical failure......
Guys, I know you wouldn't believe this without photo evidence, so check out the pic. This is the new rear screen yesterday morning. Let me re-phrase my previous post: It wasn't just a few wires that failed after 2 weeks, it was the whole of the bottom section, implying a different type of electrical failure!
I took the picture to show Autoglass. When I walked into the local depot in the afternoon I could see from the looks on their faces that they knew trouble was coming - I had the sensation that a turd must experience on being dropped into a swimming pool. Anyway they're on the case and a "technician" is coming round to perform an inspection. Incidentally, as I was discussing it with one of their fitters he let go an interesting disclosure. "Ah, of course we get the screens from the same place as BMW, but sometimes we have to wonder if we don't get the best ones..."
So, whilst I am still quite happy with Autoglass and I know this will eventually result in a satisfactory outcome, the unguarded comment above does raise some questions about whether or not it would have been better to spend £1,000 at BMW in the first place.....
When the warning light comes on I work on having 10 litres left, as it usually takes 80 to top up. By the way, on the way back from Le Mans this year we had to pay E1.43 a litre on the payage. Can I claim a record for this? Re MPG, I once did a test on the M6 and at a steady 75mph I eased 32mpg out of the old girl.
What about oil? My M62 did 7K between purchase and the next service and I never needed to top up. I had been warned to expect "some" oil useage, so this was a real result. Is it typical?
Zitat von David8;67084Had 3 rear screens replaced in 2 yrs by BMW under warranty because of electrical issues in the wiring.
All very well and good, but 3 years later I then had corrosion appearing because of poor quality workmanship when fitting those screens.
Think in hindsight I'd be inclined to live with a few elements 'out' and not tempt fate with the future demon rust...............
This gets closer to the nub of the matter. The seal on my new window - just like the last one - is "dry" on the outside and I suspect this part of the design might have more to do with the potential return of corrosion than poor workmanship. It seems that even if the window is fitted perfectly, the edges are still exposed to moisture through capillary action, because the rubber overlap is so short laterally. Now on the last one, I had them use a sealant to prevent the dreaded corrosion, but a pal has raised the possibility that this action itself may have caused the premature failure of one of the edge connectors because of lack of ventilation - i.e. it somehow managed to "seal in" whatever moisture was already present. Mmmm! But it wasn't just a few wires that failed after 2 years, it was the whole of the top section, implying a different type of electrical failure. So what's the verdict? I still have a chance to act while the window is perfect and seal the edges against the milkiness that will doubtless recur. Maybe there is some kind of water repellant that would work better whilst still providing ventilation?
Job Done
Autoglass arrived as promised and so we now have the second new rear screen inside 2 years. Is that some kind of record? Anyway, I stuck the meter across the old one but the break is still hidden underneath the edge seals, so not really any wiser. Given that this was more than likely a BMW manufacturing fault, I think Autoglass deserve huge credit for the way they have dealt with my complaint. Three cheers to them!
Seb, just a thought, seeing your small column this month. One of the things that you have yet to mention is that ownership of an 8-series is a greatly enhanced experience precisely because of the existence of this site. I think its an important point. You could go along these lines...
....by acquiring an 8-series, you don't just get a fabulous car for a ridiculously small amount of money, you get to become a stakeholder in one of the most expensively designed and precision-engineered motor vehicles ever to come out of Germany...blah, bah, blah.....driving experience.....initial proving platform for all the integrated digital electronics found in today's models..... (see "BMW 8 Series" from Brookland Books ISBN 1-855-20701-X for a plethora of quotes along these lines)
.....but for some, the notion of owning a £70,000 car immediately rings alarm bells due to the fact that the youngest examples are now 10 years old and maintenance and servicing costs are assumed to be astonomical...availability of parts....BMW labour charges....
....however, when you buy an eight, you don't just get the car, you receive automatic and honourary membership to an international network consisting of 1000's of like-minded owners. These people, like you, LIVE for this car. You will never be alone while you own an 8-series.... You're a journo, so I am sure you could make up the rest of the story.
I say this because I think we need to "up" the understanding of what this car means in the BMW community at large. And you are uniquely positioned to do it. I'll be quite honest, these were some of my thoughts before I bought the 840 2 years ago. After all, who wouldn't have these concerns? But, when I look back, apart from £3,000 spent on what were essentially cosmetic touch-ups, plus one inspection-1, this vehicle has cost me nothing in 2 years and 8,000 miles of blissful motoring and in that time its done Scotland, the Lakes three times, Cornwall twice and Le Mans twice. OK, I've invested some of my own time, but then that's enjoyable into the bargain so doesn't count as a cost, more of a benefit really.
No, I am NOT thinking of selling, but I do get just a little dis-spirited when I see 1995 examples going for 6K in my local rag. If I had a garage like Peter's, I would definitely buy another. By the way, Sir, how is the Alpina donor project going?
