Diagnostic stuff

    Hi all,
    I have in the past been very lucky with my 850, any fault research has been done through this site or others and fixed. Mostly.
    However, after experiencing several weird, but not unheard of electrical issues with an 8, i decided to take it off the road for some much needed care and attention.
    Ok,partial major rebuild of certain componants, it has done 178k.
    So, after its been sitting on the drive for several months, it was shunted around on the drive ready to go to my lock up over Christmas. Nah.
    she initially only fired up on the right hand bank, then, when warm, shut down and left for ten minutes, started normally on twelve.
    Following day, right hand bank again, but this time would not go back to twelve, then started to lose cylinders on the right hand bank. Now, nothing. :banghead:
    Anyway, cut to the chase.
    What is the best usable diagnostic software or device for an 90/91 850 M70? For scanning, reading and resetting codes and all that other electrical stuff.
    Where to get it from? how much is it? does it really work? and if software, does it work on Windows based machines?
    i've heard of Carsoft, INPA, DIS, GT1, but which one?
    I did think of the Big Breakers in the Sky, and just get another car but i don't want to give up just yet.

    Can't help you with diagnostic software as have never used it but many have and will surely advise.


    I have experienced your problem once before and it turned out to be a failed Mass Airflow Meter. If you can borrow one that you know is good it might be worth a try before paying out for software.


    Beware cheap copy Mafs if you need to replace. Breakers are a possibility as they are very expensive new.

    Sorry for the late reply - I don't check this section very often...


    Carsoft is a waste of both time and money. With the exception of very expensive tools like Autologic, third party diagnostic tools usually perform very poorly in comparison to the dealer and factory tools (DIS, INPA and ISTA/D).


    INPA is fast and makes an excellent quick fault code reader and diagnostic tool. DIS on the other hand tends to be slow, but it often provides a wealth of additional information and test plans that are not present in INPA which make DIS the preferred tool for in-depth diagnostics and troubleshooting. INPA is part of the Ediabas / Standard Tools software suite (along with NCS Expert and ToolSet 32) and runs on 32-bit Windows only (newer versions are compatible with 64-bit operating systems but do not work with older cars like the E31). DIS is UNIX software and cannot be installed in Windows. You can either run it in a virtual machine (from within Windows) or natively on compatible hardware (IBM T30 and similar). The native install provides the best performance but you have to dedicate a machine to DIS. With a virtualized DIS you can switch back to Windows on-the-fly to use other tools, browse the web, read PDF documents,... The flexibility is much greater but because there are no virtualization drivers for DIS, the performance will be quite poor unless you run it on relatively powerful hardware and perform some tricks. DIS is no longer used by BMW dealers and has been replaced by the newer ISTA/D diagnostic software. ISTA/D contains everything DIS had and supports up to the newest BMW vehicles. ISTA/D can be installed on 32-bit and 64-bit Windows but likes a powerful CPU and lots of RAM.


    One important note about INPA is that it cannot diagnose the E31 EKM module (there seems to be a bug in the data files supplied with INPA) and it can also not diagnose the M70 DME module. Modified data files are available to fix the latter (link).


    But just the software is not enough. You also need an interface to connect your car to the diagnostic system. For the E31 you have following interface options:


    • ADS: Reliable and low-cost but requires a true RS-232 serial port in your computer. Limited number of supported BMW models (but that doesn't matter if you're only interested in the E31). Slightly more expensive are ADS/OBD combination interfaces which provide support for more vehicles. The interface works natively with INPA and can be made to work with DIS as well (does not work with ISTA/D).
    • EDIC (also known as DK, GT1 or "yellow head"): Native interface for DIS but can be made to work with INPA as well (does not work with ISTA/D). Wide(r) support of BMW vehicles without having to switch between ADS and OBD interface modes. Genuine yellow heads are relatively rare and fetch premium prices. Chinese knock-offs are much cheaper (although still much more expensive than ADS interfaces) but may have reliability issues. There used to be great Chinese clones but in recent years the quality seems to have plummeted. I would only recommend a Chinese clone if you can return it easily for a refund, or if you can get a used one that is known to be working reliably on the E31.
    • ICOM A+C: Native interface for ISTA/D but can be made to work with INPA (and in theory with DIS but since ISTA/D contains everything DIS had there is not much sense in doing so). Once again available genuinely for steep prices, or somewhat cheaper as a Chinese clone. In combination with the ISTA/D diagnostic software, you should be able to diagnose the entire range of BMW vehicles. The Chinese clones seem to work quite well on modern bimmers but I experienced annoying disconnection issues on the E31: After a while communication between ISTA/D and the E31 halts and the only way to restore it is to close and reopen ISTA/D and power cycle the ICOM interface. This does not occur with a genuine ICOM interface. So just as with the EDIC I would avoid a Chinese clone unless you can return it easily for a refund or get a system that is proven to work reliably.


    A popular combination for the E31 is a laptop running Windows XP and Ediabas/INPA along with a virtual machine running EasyDIS v44 and an ADS interface. Installing Ediabas/INPA and EasyDIS can be difficult if you are not computer savvy, so some people offer complete packages that work out of the box (laptop + pre-configured software + interface). Not the cheapest solution, but it works and gives you the best diagnostic functionality for the E31.


    Please note that not all modules in the E31 offer the same level of diagnostic functionality. The E31 was the first BMW vehicle to offer advanced diagnostics but compared to modern cars the amount of information that can be retrieved from the car is not that great. Don't expect diagnostics to be the answer to all problems. Diagnostics can be invaluable in troubleshooting so it's definitely worthwhile to at least read the fault codes for any issue you may experience, but it's not uncommon no fault codes are stored and the diagnostic functionality may not provide enough detail to identify the problem. In some cases the fault codes may even point you completely in the wrong direction!

    Thanks for the info. I'll look into it a bit deeper.
    In the meantime, said beastie was moved to the lock up out of the way. Lots of attempts at starting and various other manual checks later, time allowing, she is now running on all twelve. However, after such a long time being in a coma and brain dead, needs a darn good 'thrashing' to learn to 'walk and talk' again.
    The only reason for all this trouble seems to be fuel related, although power was there to fuel pumps on start/run, did not appear to pump anything except air, yes, quarter tank of fuel, sticky pumps? air lock?
    Anyway, now has incontinence, losing lots of fuel near tank when running. Possible cause of original problem, though not obvious at the time.
    Lots of other 'medical' issues as well, since 'waking up'.

    Hi Rob,


    The fuel lines that run under the car rot away, good chance that's where the fuel is leaking from.


    I have a laptop with DIS installed (thanks to the mighty Revtor) and the necessary cables to connect to an OBDI e31 - it's not easy to get this going and you need an antique laptop with a genuine serial port (not USB -> Serial) that are fairly rare. I haven't even booted it up in 5 years, but you're welcome to borrow it. I live in St Albans but travel north on a routine basis due to my unhealthy Aston Villa habit so I may be able to drop it off at some point.


    Cheers, Nick

    Hi Nick.


    Sorry about the extremely late reply, must seem very rude.
    Got involved in a building project, so the 8 went on backburner.
    I changed the return line and both filters, the other pipes were ok. It's running, but with issues.
    So, if still available, would like to use your kit.


    Will check a bit more often.


    So sorry to hear about your 'habit', hope it gets better soon !!!;-)

    Hi Rob,


    The laptop has not be started up for a few years, so there is a danger it has passed on to the other side. I will fire it up at the weekend and let you know the score.


    Nick

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