Key stuck / Auto shifter possibly related

    Hi kind people
    I've been struck recently by two intermittent problems:
    1) Unable to remove key sometimes after driving: there is no loose/ free movement or rotation, just the key will not allow itself to be removed (but still able to turn key and start/ switch off engine).


    2) Gear shifter on my auto box has got stuck in P a couple of times.


    Both these faults have only happened once or twice, and have rectified themselves after a bit of a wait/ trying again / moving steering wheel around while stationary with engine off, etc etc.


    Question, are these faults potentially linked in any way? As they have both appeared at the same time..


    Also, any suggested solutions? I have done a search and the solution to the key issue seems to always be, replace the round part the key goes into, before the problem gets worse.
    As far as shifter sometimes sticking in "P" -- is this resolvable easily, or a sign of something more significant I should worry about?


    In all other respects the car is driving fine, but obviously this key sticking issue is making it impossible to drive the car anywhere ..also my MOT is due ASAP so I must make some progress quickly on both issues..


    Any advise appreciated :toothbrush:

    Quick clarification:


    When I asked, "Are these faults linked"?, its not because they strike simultaneously. When the key is stuck, I am still able to start/ stop the engine, and change gear, and drive, etc.


    The reason I ask if they are linked is simply because the two faults have developed in the last week or so, but they do not manifest at the same moment (or at least, they haven't yet).


    Thanks

    Yes, they are probably linked. There is a Bowden cable that runs from the shifter to the ignition lock assembly - this is used to only allow the key to be removed when the shifter is in Park. I would guess that something's gone a bit pear-shaped around the cable.

    Thanks Timm - gives me something to work on...
    Can I remove/ open up the shifter assembly to take a look?


    Any other experience of similar / replies, please anyone else, feel free to chip in! :)

    Yes. However, you'll need to remove the centre console panel and/or the lower dash, knee panel above the pedals in the driver's footwell. And then the lower cover of the steering column.



    8er.org/forum/index.php?attachment/25375/ 8er.org/forum/index.php?attachment/25376/ 8er.org/forum/index.php?attachment/25373/ 8er.org/forum/index.php?attachment/25374/


    (Arrows indicate Bowden cable. Ignore red-circle in last picture: that's the Airbag connector)


    It may be easier to check that the problem is not at the ignition-key end as there is less trim to remove to access that.



    I think that the replacement of the key lock barrel is only necessay if the key does not always turn properly in the lock, indicating wear of the lock tumbler pins. The (easy) replacement of the barrel requires a working key, hence the advice to do this ASAP, before it wears too much.


    The ability to move the gear-lever out of P is linked to being able to set the igition key to Poition-I or II, and for the key to be released when in Position-0, the gear lever needs to be in P. This link-up is done mechanically through the bowden cable. Perhaps getting some oil to the moving parts, and, if possible inside the cable sheath, may help free things up. Whilst at it you can also lubricate the gear-lever pivots, which dry out and make the gear-lever movement stiffer than it should be. It won' hurt to try to get some oil into the key-lock as well.

    Arnie - fantastic detail and very helpful photos. Thank you very much..
    I've been using the car several times today and luckily the symptoms didn't present themselves - I'm going to try get it through the MOT this week while problem is latent - and then deal with this properly the first time it reoccurs - which could be later this week if MOT fails on this issue.
    I will restart this thread at that time. thanks again!

    Update: the car passed the MOT, so I should be happy but there were a couple of advisories so I'm not feeling quite so chipper. "braking system not balanced" or words to that effect although not a fail. Sticking front caliper suspected, although not affecting braking in a straight line..yet.
    Just like the last MOT, (always from the same garage) it was also again wrongly suggested there is an unspecified "oil leak" when my garage floor is completely free of oil stains, rather conclusive evidence I've never had one... (find that really irritating for some reason).
    Also, apparently the key thing happened again whilst my garage guy had the car briefly. Small list of things to attend to I guess.:toothbrush:

    Unfortunately, those of us with the 840ci Sport often suffer uneven brake action because of the 4-pot Brembo's - and even though they can be rebuilt in most cases, it does seem to be the case that they seize up again with great regularity.

    From our sister UK site (by Fatbot):


    Thought I'd report on the forum my good experience of a caliper rebuilding company, as I know many of you also have seizing Brembo front calipers.


    Thinking it would save me taking my car off the road I bought a set of used calipers on ebay and sent them to Powerhouse Automotive in Sheffield (who I found via Google so it was a bit of a punt). They called after a week to say one of the calipers was internally too corroded to recondition and advised me to get my money back from the ebay seller. I then asked them to send them back to him, which they did at their own cost, something I found amazing in this day and age.


    A month or so later I got round to laying up my car and stripping the calipers off and sent them to Powerhouse. Got them back after a fortnight and they have as far as I can tell returned them to as-new condition, they look amazing - cost £120 (I supplied the seal kits). Apparently they were a real pig as one of the pistons just refused to budge even after days in a solvent bath. They finally got it out with the aid of a blowtorch.


    So anyway, great company and for the record I have no association with them.


    Link:


    http://www.powerhouseautomotiv…-sheffield-yorkshire.html

    Zitat von BBMatic;116283

    Do you know anyone that rebuilds them Timm?


    BB, I replaced all 4 of my calipers back in 2006 when chasing a binding brake problem. The problem turned out to be the master cylinder which was costly. From memory, the calipers were about £80 each on an exchange basis inclusive of new pads. This will likely have gone up in 7 years! Budweg were excellent to deal with and the turn around was about 48hrs. The part numbers for mine were 342286;87;88;89 but I guess the 840 will be different.


    http://www.budweg.com


    Cheers
    Graham

    I had a sized piston a couple of weeks ago. After I removed the caliper the reason was obvious.
    Underneath the large piston are 2 "domes" and between them break dust gathered in a thick crust.
    This crust was building up above the piston sealing ring and there the ring had a large hole.
    Probably heat is building up under the thick layer of break dust and damages the rubber sealing to a point where it fails.
    From then on it's just a matter of time until the piston fails to move back.
    I was not able to get out the piston so I ordered new calipers for both sides.
    As it seems I got the last left side caliper. From the right side there were 7 left.
    From now on, I will check the calipers regularly and clean the area with compressed air.
    Taking out the pads on the Brembos is easy and therefore it is not a big job.
    I think for every V8 owner, it should be on the maintenance list.
    If the seal is already damaged it should be changed as soon as possible.

    Had one sticky piiston on the front calipers and decided to change both at around £400 each. The rubber cover-boots around the pistons are the weak-spot and if water gets in with brake-dust and road salt, it quickly corrodes and siezes the aluminium pistons. On the new ones, I filled the boot with copper-grease, which will hopefully keep some dirt out. The above advice for regular cleaning is good advice for these brakes. At the MOT the other week, on the brake-test machine, both front calipers were perfectly balanced all the way from 0 to over 400 kg force and the rear from 0 - over 300 kg force at the wheels. (With the car at 2 tonnes, that's 0.7g deceleration)

    I'm at the same point - the callipers have been rebuilt already and are sticking again. As the E31 is my daily driver I'm just going to have to shut up and pay the money for a new pair.

    Zitat von Timm;116193

    Yes, they are probably linked. There is a Bowden cable that runs from the shifter to the ignition lock assembly - this is used to only allow the key to be removed when the shifter is in Park. I would guess that something's gone a bit pear-shaped around the cable.


    Timm - or anyone familiar with this gearbox (5HP30 i think?). Shifter still getting stuck in "P" and key still sticking in ignition (both these faults are intermittent)
    Quick questions needing reply ASAP if possible..(car on way in for service right now)
    1) Can one simply remove this bowden cable to remove the linkage between "key removability" and "being in Park"?
    2) Any pointers on the most sympathetic way to start to remove the plastic casing surrounding the gear shifter would be VERY much appreciated!
    Thanks. Will check replies a bit later and if nothing today, will hopefully get some pointers by earlyish tomorrow when work likely to start
    Thanks

    Zitat von BBMatic;117386


    1) Can one simply remove this bowden cable to remove the linkage between "key removability" and "being in Park"?


    I suppose (don't know exatly) that if the key is not inserted, the linkage is in locking and relaxed position.
    (Pulled into this position by some sort of a spring. This way it is not under stress).
    When the ignition is turned, the bowden is pulled and kept in this position.
    I suppose if you remove the bowden, the part in the shifter would remain in the locking position.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be the logical way for me.


    Zitat


    2) Any pointers on the most sympathetic way to start to remove the plastic casing surrounding the gear shifter would be VERY much appreciated!


    - Pull up leather gear shifter cover. (It has clips around. You can also Pull up the shift knob if you like to remove it.)
    - With a screw driver pull up the little clip which attaches the shifter to the gear display.
    - Remove the two screws and lift out the cover. Disconnect the cables. (Removing the upper screw might be tricky if you can't move the shifter out of P).


    Hope it helps.
    Cheers,
    Steve

    There actually also is a solenoid which pulls a locking tab from the gear linkage as soon as you tap the brake pedal. To me it seems rather logical that proper function of the brake switch is another rather relevant part of the equation.
    Maybe you start here: press brake pedal more than once or with keen ears until you hear the switch click.


    Having removed the leather boot and unfortunately also the gear lever surround as described above you can ogle the solenoid in action but I fear not remove from linkage without further ado.


    Is your cruise control sporadically turning itself off?


    For the thing with the key I´d have placed my money on the ignition barrel. Have one car that had the same behaviour a few years ago and also rather intermittently. Resorted to keeping the wallet key in the ashtray ;) Good notion of the bowden cable thingy though... will keep this in mind for the "next time" it raises its ugly head.


    Cheers & a happy new year!
    Reinhard

    Gentlemen, thanks for your advices but i'm still unsure about parts of your replies.


    1) Steve - when you write "I suppose if you remove the bowden, the part in the shifter would remain in the locking position." - i'm not sure what the logical conclusion you make here . Does this mean the bowden cable MUST stay in place, no matter what?
    2) Reinhard - i never use the cruise control so i cannot tell if it turns itself off..
    At present, we are working on the theory that the ignition barrel is not in itself faulty, because a) the two faults presented simultaneously and b) there is no looseness or play in the barrel
    But of course, this is not known for sure until we start to investigate the bowden cable (and maybe, not known even after we do this)


    3) Reinhard, i didn't understand the point you make about the proper function of the "brake switch" - i have no idea what the brake switch is.. can you clarify WHEN, exactly, you suggest pressing the brake pedal more than once? Are you saying I should do this on occasions during normal usage, (when the shifter will not move from P) and wait for the "click" and then try moving the shifter lever again? Or, are you saying this should be performed as part of the repair investigations?


    4) More: on another forum, i was told we may have to remove the LOWER PART of the plastic surround / casing which surrounds the lower steering wheel area/ ignition barrel -- is this quite necessary to try and make any repair on the bowden cable?


    5) Lastly, I was given a longer sequence elsewhere on the removal of the plastic trim surrounding the gear shifter. I attach those instructions below - could someone tell me if Steve's "shorter" instructions above are more correct, or whether i need to follow all of these steps? Please tell me if ANY of the following steps are NOT required?


    1. Pull the leather shift knob off.
    2. Pull the leather boot off (The frame clips in on the sides)
    3. Unfasten the two screws holding on the shift plate and undo the clip/pin that attaches to the lever.
    4. Remove the radio.
    5. Push out the MID from behind using the radio opening.
    6. Push out each switch in the console and disconnect the connectors, including the two on the shifter console.
    7. Unfasten the two screws above the MID.
    8. Carefully pull out the console slightly to gain access to the climate control connectors.
    9. Once all the climate control wiring is unplugged, the console can be removed from the dash.
    10. Unfasten the screws on the back of the climate control panel to release it from the console.

    Lastly: someone wrote the following in reply to another (similar) query. and i don't know if it applies to us , at this early stage of investigations:
    "You actually don't have to remove the shift boot to remove it from the car. You can pop the base of the boot out easily using your fingers or a small screwdriver, then you can twist it so it fits through the hole. Note: Be careful with the pin that connects the shift lever to the console for the gear indicator. There is a little clip that holds it in place that is easy to lose" - could someone clarify if, while trying to remove the plastic surround, we are likely to interact with this "pin" that connects the shift lever to the console?

    I'm sorry to have so many questions but the entire assembly underneath / around the gear shifter is a complete mystery to me. Any answers to these specific questions will be much appreciated.

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