certificate of chassis capabillities?

  • Does anyone have a document from BMW or an independant lab stating how much HP and Torque the E31 chassis can handle?

    The reason for this is that I'm looking into getting my supercharger approved by the motor authorities in Norway.

    One of the things I need is a document that states that the E31 chassis is structrurally strong enought to handle say 500hp and 600nm.

    Also document that the suspension will hold this power, and the brakes.

    Anyone know where I can get my hands on this?

    -Egil (thats my name)

    1990 850IA Hartge SC
    2012 M550d Touring

    If I misspelled a word it's because I'm Norwegian, so bear with me.

  • I don´t think that such paper exists - at least not in Germany.
    There is no regulation that requires such testing.
    To certify a modified car street legal is entirely up to the engineer doing the assessment (TUEV). Technical documents of the modifications are a good thing to have as long as they can have a safety/legal impact: exhaust, rims, brakes.
    In the end it nevertheless is entirely at the discretion of the testing engineer whether he thinks the car is roadworthy or not.
    The Dinan TT guys in the US may have "some" certificate but I doubt that anyone outside BMW ever thought about testing the structural rigidity of the E31.
    Cheers
    Reinhard

  • Well, apparently the people here in Norway need to know that the body can handle the extra hp and torque without tearing itself to parts, not just my word for it.

    I will do a Dyno of my car today and expect about 330+hp and 410-430nm on my rear wheels, so that puts me at just over 400 crank hp.
    So tecnically I'm in the Alpina 5.7 ballpark.

    I believe that Hartge made a handfull of 440hp 6.1l H8 versions.

    So I guess that if I could get my hands on some documentations from those cars, and used todays base map as the new HP, then I'm in the clear. :grin2:

    My hp goal is 395-410 Whp, putting me shy of 500hp, torque is expected to be in the 600nm area.

    -Egil (thats my name)

    1990 850IA Hartge SC
    2012 M550d Touring

    If I misspelled a word it's because I'm Norwegian, so bear with me.

  • The H8 is a myth :D


    There are a few H2´s around.


    All Europe based cars with 6.0/6.1 L (eg Hamann) have an engine that to my knowledge was developed by Noelle Motors. You can still buy the base engine if you feel rich (around 20K was quoted a while ago).


    Noelle certainly did not do any chassis testing. Assume the same for Hartge. As I wrote above - there is no legal requirement in Germany (nor a certified procedure) to do so, hence why waste the money.


    It is unfortunate that the Norwegian gvt demands things that can not exist- it may mean that they just want to stop the "hotrodding" of cars (if this is done in Norway).
    We have seen a lot of excellently made bodies with oodles of power - at times 30-50x what was initially specced - at car meetings in Sweden: Ford Model T with 800HP hemi? No problem.
    Structural integrity tested? Uhh, how could Henry forget about this :D


    I´d rather have more useful news.
    Cheers
    Reinhard

  • The H8 is no myth, but I think only 4 was made.

    I read an atricle on this car once, but I cant find it now.

    Yes The Norwegians don't like us tuning our cars.

    If there is no TÜV or equivalent approval for the specific mod certified for that specific vehicle.... just forget it.

    I can't even get my wheels approved, because they don't come with a TÜV certificate that states that that specific dimension, offset and tire combo is approved for the BMW E31.

    -Egil (thats my name)

    1990 850IA Hartge SC
    2012 M550d Touring

    If I misspelled a word it's because I'm Norwegian, so bear with me.

  • Zitat von mattsimis;71005

    What does being approved by the government get you anyhow?



    Keeps me from failing the MOT and loose the plates on the car.

    Every F'king thing you do to a car must be put into the cars registration over here.
    if I want to put on staggerd tires it must be put into the cars papers, and to get there it must be certified.....
    If I want to put on a sport muffler... it must be written into the papers... and you guessed it, it has to be TUV certified.

    No certification = not road legal = failed MOT = no plates = not able to drive the car.

    -Egil (thats my name)

    1990 850IA Hartge SC
    2012 M550d Touring

    If I misspelled a word it's because I'm Norwegian, so bear with me.



  • Same procedure in Switzerland mate - no paper? Not specifically approved for the E31? No chance. Even if it is approved for the E31 but not your specific variant = go away (when I bought my car it had Remus exhaust end boxes, my car is an M73 and the Remus boxes are only type approved for the M70/S70. No way around it I had to swap my Brand New Remus boxes for OEM to keep the morons at the test centre happy). Since then I have a number of other modifications, no way the car would pass the CH test now. Since I don't live there anymore I am now importing the car into the UK - it has already passed the UK MOT with all of the mods in place and no problems whatsoever. It is possible to overdo a good thing, the German & Swiss testing procedures are rigourous but sometimes a little overkill. Just my opinion.

  • Those things get complicated very quickly, especially considering that people setting those rules are human after all and make errors themselves.


    One example I stumbled upon when trying to get M-Parallel rims (Styling 37) certified for use with my M73 is the following:


    The official document for the M-Parallels (dated 6/2000) describes the area of use for those rims precisely:



    The document says it is valid for all E31s belonging to the given EG/EF types AND produced from 9/94 onwards.


    A quick look into the type code list for the E31 reveals the following:



    This means that the certificate is valid only for the few M70s built post 9/94 (basically none) and the M60 based 840s between 9/94 and the end of the M60 production.


    According to this document one cannot legally have M-Parallels on any M62 or M73 and essentially not on M70 due to the date exclusion.


    Well... I wanted to have M-Parallels on my M73 and the very German engineer pointed out that I couldn´t - following closely the rules set in the official BMW document.
    Guess my face :lol:


    It worked out in the end as there was enough evidence to convince the engineer of the mistake that was made, but what happens if this man was made of state servant granite? :dontknow:


    ;)
    Reinhard

  • Zitat von IcemanBHE;71024

    PZ, is it possible to scan that article in a PDF format? I would really like to be able to see it for reference.

    Thanks
    B


    I'll do it this evening. I'm very glad it could be useful !

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