The last 850Ci

Zitat von Nifty50;93663

I didn't know they were made in 1998

Just as the 840Ci, the 850Ci was manufactured up to May 1999. There was, however, never a right-hand drive version of the M73 850Ci. So for the UK, the 850Ci production ended in 1994.

Zitat von Nifty50;93677

Do we know the whereabouts of the very last 850? (assuming Reinhard doesn't have it ferreted away somewhere).

The last 850Ci is actually briefly mentioned in Reinhard's post about the the final 8er: CC41891, located in Sharjah (United Arab Emirates). It was built on May 11 1999, one day before the last E31 - Reinhard's estoril blue 840Ci - left the production facilities...

Zitat

Would these later 850 models have benefited from the refinements I thought only existed in the later 840's or were they just late editions of the earlier models in all respects? So the answer to your question is most likely yes.

I'm not sure what refinements you refer to, but apart from engine/transmission and directly related components all E31 are built on the same platform and received the same updates.

Zitat

Were they available in all LHD countries right up to the end?

Production ended a bit earlier for the US models, but the rest of the world could buy the left-hand drive 850Ci until the very end. In comparison to the M70 850i/850Ci, the M73 is a relatively rare beast though. Only 1,218 M73 E31 manufactured versus 20,072 M70. That's even less than the 850CSi!

Zitat von Nifty50;93677

I don't like cutting across other threads (sorry feras) but not sure how to transfer this topic to another thread.



I honestly never knew that Revtor.

Do we know the whereabouts of the very last 850? (assuming Reinhard doesn't have it ferreted away somewhere).

Would these later 850 models have benefited from the refinements I thought only existed in the later 840's or were they just late editions of the earlier models in all respects? Were they available in all LHD countries right up to the end?

Cheers
Graham

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Hi Graham, I have a 1997 built M73 which I privately imported into the UK (I think it might be the only M73 UK registered now). If you mean by refinements the Sport Kit to make it look like a CSi then the answer is no, they were not all like that. My car was ordered with some extras such as CSi style interior trim, it also has wood trim, rear blind, ski hatch, folding rear seats, electrical steering column adjustment etc etc.

Zitat von Nifty50;93681

By refinements, I meant aerodynamics kit, steptronic gearbox etc (now all answered) and basically whether continued improvements had been applied to the model during the evolved years from 1994.

The 850Ci received the same updates as the 840Ci. The aerodynamics kit (850CSi bodykit) was however not a down-the-line refinement or face lift. In the last years of production E31 sales had dropped considerably and in an attempt to make the car more attractive some regional BMW divisions decided to offer a so-called "sport edition" featuring the M aerodynamic kit, M sport package, sport seats, Individual roof liner,... as a no-cost option. This initiative was started in 1996 by BMW UK and in 1998 taken over by BMW Belgium. The UK sport edition packed for over 7,500 EUR of free options and the Belgian sport edition, which was even more extensive, for approximately 12,000 EUR. Since the M73 850Ci was not available in right-hand drive version obviously no RHD 850Ci sport editions exist, but in Belgium you could order the 850Ci sport edition. It didn't help boost sales in Belgium, though. Only 5 sport editions were ordered of which only one 850Ci...

Zitat

Any idea of what it's comparable price would have been against CC67485? What would have been the approximate price difference in those countries between the 840 and 850 in the 1994-1999 period? Do we know of the existence of the last 850 sales brochure?

Reinhard can probably answer these questions best.

Zitat von revtor;93684

The 850Ci received the same updates as the 840Ci. The aerodynamics kit (850CSi bodykit) was however not a down-the-line refinement or face lift. In the last years of production E31 sales had dropped considerably and in an attempt to make the car more attractive some regional BMW divisions decided to offer a so-called "sport edition" featuring the M aerodynamic kit, M sport package, sport seats, Individual roof liner,... as a no-cost option. This initiative was started in 1996 by BMW UK and in 1998 taken over by BMW Belgium. The UK sport edition packed for over 7,500 EUR of free options and the Belgian sport edition, which was even more extensive, for approximately 12,000 EUR. Since the M73 850Ci was not available in right-hand drive version obviously no RHD 850Ci sport editions exist, but in Belgium you could order the 850Ci sport edition. It didn't help boost sales in Belgium, though. Only 5 sport editions were ordered of which only one 850Ci...

Reinhard can probably answer these questions best.

That's very interesting, do we know if it still exists?

I can't comment generally on pricing but I can reveal what my car cost when it was ordered - it was sold in Switzerland (St. Gallen) and the price tag in July 1997 for my car with its options was CHF 155,200 - that's a chunk of money even today, back then it was a very expensive car. For comparison, I think you can the M6 for around GBP75,000

Successor to the M70 powered 750 and 850 was the improved in many ways M73 engine with increased displacement (5.4L) and compression ratio (10:1) resulting in 326hp & increased torque and typically around 10-15% better fuel economy. It was released to the public for the 1995 model year following just over 20 (prototypical) E31 cars between January and July 1994.

Despite the near identical looks M70 and M73 are indeed quite different to each other.

oil cooled pistons


modified crankshaft bearings

M70


M73


modified combustion chamber


New vibration damper without pulse wheel


Incremental gear on the flywheel. Monitoring through both DME´s allowing for cyclinder selective detection of misfire


4 knock sensors


Roller cam follower instead of rocker arms, reduced friction: improved fuel consumption, less heat generation, improved longevity


Steel valves replacing sodium filled valves

Crank case venting valves in analogy to M60/M62


Secondary air system to improve emissions


Double walled headers to improve heat and noise insulation

Pre- and post catalytical converter oxygen sensors


Motronic 5.2, EML IIIS - conforming to OBD2 standard.

Read all the gory details here: M73 tech brief, PDF, 4MB

Along with the M73 came the exclusive use of the ZF 5HP30 Steptronic gearbox (same as in early M62´s).
M73 E31´s were only ever offered as LHD (US & ECE versions) cars.
---------
The M73 certainly did not help much boosting the sales of the V12 E31´s. As Revtor already pointed out: overall the M73 is the lowest production E31 variant. The table below details the worldwide accumulated sales between 1994 (Jan. 19th, 1st M73 off the assy line) and 1999 (May 12th, last E31 production day)

The 1998/1999 sales figures for the M73 received a boost of near 100% through the Platinum and Alpina Editions for the Middle East (ca. 70 cars).

The total package M73 engine along with the Steptronic 5-speed gearbox makes for a significant improvement over the preceding M70/4HP combination. The whole system feels lighter and less strained much of it attributable solely to the additional gear.

A base price comparison between the different models in an ancient currency DM (1.95583 DM = 1 EUR) valid for Germany and including the contemporary VAT. Automatic gearbox for M60/M62 added.

As you can see the cylindrically challenged M60/M62 were always around 25k cheaper than the M73 and the CSi, as long as it was available cost yet another 30 grand on top of that.

Cheers
Reinhard

Zitat von Nifty50;93690

Hi Jason, I am very curious to know how your car drives.

I have never driven another 8 other than my '91 850. I just imagine that 6-8 years down the line the later ones must be so much better. Have you ever driven the older ones. My car might be really awful and I just don't know it

Hello Graham, sorry for the delay, it's been a busy couple of days.
When I first bought the car it felt pretty powerful. After a few months though I suppose I got used to it. I then opted to have Firebird's engine programming and gearbox management system and the car felt far more responsive after that. I don't know the exact power output, it's estimated at around 350bhp. Whatever it might be I find it's now great. I also opted for a diff swap and went to a 3.15:1 with a Quaife ATB. Finally I spent money on Eibach and Bilstein suspension all round to sort out the handling.

That aside, for me the most important aspect of the car is without a doubt the gearbox. The 5 speed steptronic is great and I love it. I have driven one other 8, an older M70 4 speed - also in great condition, this was Manfred Haffner's car (you might know him, he was very active on the German speaking section of the board until he unfortunately died a couple of years ago.) Whilst his car was in fine condition I really didn't like the auto gearbox and it felt, well agricultural in comparison with the stepper box. There's nothing basically wrong with the 4 speed - I have a cousin of it in my Range Rover but I much prefer the 5 speed steptronic. Originally I wanted a six-speed car and I did look at one M70 6 speed - that car turned out to be very overpriced and in poor condition and I found my M73 for the same money in good condition. In short, I find the car very relaxing to drive long distances, I regularly do 1,000 mile plus trips without a hitch. I also love the car's ability to transform itself into a pretty quick back road rocket, especially with the tighter suspension now as it seems better able to handle the car's weight. Also, as Reinhard pointed out, the fuel economy with the M73 is better than the M70, long distance I can usually manage over 30mpg (around town it's dreadful though, I think all 8's are rubbish at urban cycle).
I would love to have a manual still, maybe one day I'll find myself a later 840 M62 6-speed, that would be tempting.

Whereabouts in West Sussex are you? My brother lives in E. Sussex so potentially we could arange a meet sometime, you could have a little go in the M73 then.

Grahams question essentially boils down to a: why V12?

BMW was the first German car producer after WW2 to come up with a V12 engine in ca. 1986 and this way essentially muscled themselves into the premier league of manufacturers. Only two decades earlier when they were still known to mostly make tiny cars (Isetta, BMW 700)

they managed to establish themselves next to Mercedes with the E3 (190.000 sold, picture left), predecessor to the first 7-series (E23, picture right).

Considering the fact that another 10 years earlier Mercedes was indeed asked to help the ailing Bavarian car maker by assimiliating them, this was quite a feat.
Ever since then BMW tried to outdo the guys from Stuttgart and experiments with V12 engines date back to the E3 mentioned above but were scrapped during the oil crisis in 73/74. A 4.5L V12 (M66) was ready for the E23 but never produced for general economical reasons.

Later in the 1980´s the V12 seems to have become a duel of prestige between Mercedes-Benz and BMW which the latter "won" by half a decade and by the looks of it following the M66 theory of cobbling two in-line sixes together - a range of engines they had been familiar with for a few decades.

Thus BMW entered the exclusive circle of the luxury car makers spearheaded by the M70 V12 engine. The V12 was indeed quite successful in the 7-series where it was used alongside the E31 850 but has always been outnumbered by the smaller engines in the same production line (R6, V8). Some sales figures:

M70 drivetrain

E32 V12: ca. 48500
E32 non V12: ca. 262.000

M73 engine

E38 V12: ca. 25.000
E38 non V12: ca. 300.000

As small as those V12 figures look in comparison to the rest of the fold it made BMW the largest producer of V12 propelled cars worldwide.

The E38, starting with the M73 received, due to national regulations for the model year 1999 another upgrade which was tagged M73N with the same specs but improved emissions over the predecessor. It was the V12 engine in the BMW lineup to be used until the end of the E38 in 2001. Only in 2003 - 16 years after the M70 entered the scene - the completely new developped N73 entered the stage in the BMW 760 E65.

N73 engine

This engine, yet another marvel in technological design and still in use in the RR Phantom lineup was replaced after 9660 (BMW E6x) units by the Biturbo N74B60 in 2009 for the then new 7-series F01 and the Baby Rolls.

N74 engine

So, despite the downsizing trend everywhere you´re looking, BMW has stuck to the ancient concept that displacement can be bettered only by more of it and still produces that nowadays politically incorrect V12 engine that opened the door to where the Nobles used to dine. I think it is only a question of time that the V12 era will end esp. in view of a 3 cylinder 1-series ante portas. Power, one of the main driving forces for the ever increasing number of cylinders and displacement is now being created more efficiently through forced induction concepts and let´s face it, who in the world needs 600HP in his daily commuter or elsewhere? The same question was true already 25 yrs ago - who in the world needed 300HP then?
Horsepower inflation in the last 10 years has made everything including the E31´s powerhouses look tiny and limp and despite the fact that Ye Olde Lady can still run with the young´uns it is best to move into the slow lane as soon as something made in the 21st century appears in the rear mirror.

And yes, looking closely you will find that the V12 was not meant to be the end of it back then:

Cheers
Reinhard

Wow! I find it always amazing how you transform dry facts into a very enjoyable read.
Another great post from you!

Cheers,
Steve

Another great story ends with Goldfish.

Lovely to read.Thanks.

Zitat

Would these later 850 models have benefited from the refinements I thought only existed in the later 840's or were they just late editions of the earlier models in all respects? Were they available in all LHD countries right up to the end?

Cheers
Graham

Yes, but only for the Belgian Market since oct-1998. Just one 850 Ci Sport M73 was sold (Code 337 and 773 for a no cost option). Some M73 are these specification but it was an option (like Germany and other)

The very last M73 produced in May 1999 are

CC41889 850Ci Allemagne 3/05/99
CC41890 850Ci Alpina Moyen-Orient 4/05/99
CC41891 850Ci Platinum Moyen-Orient 11/05/99
CC41892 850Ci Platinum Moyen-Orient 6/05/99
CC41893 850Ci Platinum Moyen-Orient 5/05/99
CC41894 850Ci Allemagne 5/05/99
CC41895 850Ci Sport Belgique (NL) 6/05/99
CC41896 850Ci Allemagne 6/05/99

Hi Mr. Goffinet

VIN : CC41890
Colour: ROYALROT METALLIC (390)
Upholstery: SONDERPOLSTERUNG (Z1XX)

Is there really such ALPINA sticker on this car, Individual and option lists unfortunately, because it does not name ALPINA.

Regards

Fatih

Note : Mr. Reinhard has made me a detailed explanation. I thank him for his time.

Dear Mr. Aloglu,

Thank you for your response. Do you think CC41890 is not a 850Ci Alpina ?
I know it's not a B12 but I thought it was a M73 Alpina. Do you know if CC41832 is the first Alpina 5.4 ? It's so strange that the first car seems to be CC41847 with the number 2/15. I know also, at this year (1998), that only M73 engine was available in Middle East but with three version: 850Ci, 850Ci Platinum and 850Ci Alpina. CC41832 is probably a 850Ci but could be the prototype of the 850Ci Alpina ? Do you know the difference between the price of an Platinum and a Alpina ? Maybe that could be explain the succes of the Platinum ?

Hope you understand my bad english

Cheers,

Pierre

Good morning, Mr. Goffinet

Thank you for your comments, misunderstanding stemmed from a lack of just ALPINA sticker.

I would like to thank you for the detailed chassis numbers, do not have any problems

Regards

Fatih

Zitat von reinhard;93725

...they managed to establish themselves next to Mercedes with the E3 (190.000 sold, picture left), predecessor to the first 7-series (E23, picture right).


..... I think it is only a question of time that the V12 era will end esp. in view of a 3 cylinder 1-series ante portas. Power, one of the main driving forces for the ever increasing number of cylinders and displacement is now being created more efficiently through forced induction concepts and let´s face it, who in the world needs 600HP in his daily commuter or elsewhere? The same question was true already 25 yrs ago - who in the world needed 300HP then?
Horsepower inflation in the last 10 years has made everything including the E31´s powerhouses look tiny and limp and despite the fact that Ye Olde Lady can still run with the young´uns it is best to move into the slow lane as soon as something made in the 21st century appears in the rear mirror...

Cheers
Reinhard

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Very fascinating adddition. My father had a 2500 version of the E3, followed by a 3.0 and that's what started my interest in BMW. I remember seeing the brochure of the e32 back then, which seemed incredibly sophisticated with having ABS braking and other toys ...and in those days, the brochures included pictures of the engines and I recall much was made of the then-new V12.

Now I see that BMW has managed more than 200 bhp from a 2 litre diesel (the '2.3", twin-turbo unit), which is over the 100bhp/litre that was the preserve of only M-cars just a few years back. Times are changing.