New cars are boring

My new 650i is similarly boring - much prefer the 840ci for a good blasting, the 650i is just too efficient. There is little feel to the steering on the 650i whereas you can feel every bit of gravel on the road in the E31 - much more fun.

Quote from NickF;129237

Oh and Graham, tell me about your 123d.

The 123 experience was very short lived but glad I got it out of my system. It was never boring but after the initial fun of its explosive performance wore off, I felt all I had was a car of poor quality. I was persistently provoked by all young hot hatch owners and one such experience got me 3 points and a nice fine; I honestly found it difficult to be invisible. The economy was dreadful and the more I lived with it the more I became increasingly annoyed at the build quality. BMW are without question, masters of marketing for being able to attain such high prices for mass production build quality.

Nevertheless, I could have lived with many of these things had it not been for the dealership lack of service and care. I suspect some dealers are honourable but I have had so many bad experiences with my local dealerships over the last 25 years that the final straw came when the 123 developed an electrical issue whilst still under warranty. They advised that it could have been a number of things and I should let it develop further. Well it got steadily worse and after three or four further visits to the dealer, it finally gave up a week after the expiry of the warranty. They took great delight informing me that the warranty had expired and that I was looking at a £700 bill to replace some unit or other. The car was traded in for another Merc within the week.

In contrast, Mercedes have now on two occasions (mine and the wife's) requested the vehicles for a final once over just before the warranty expired and in my wife's case a whole host of impending nasties were replaced.

Very little of my driving these days involves blasting as the congestion simply does not allow it and a wafty Mercedes is just perfect for my needs, so boring? Yes, probably.

I completely agree however, that driving an 8 is an occasion and with seldom use, it keeps it so.

Cheers

Graham

New cars are not just boring but they are also fell victim of two major forces behind their development:
1) Financial pressure
2) Legal requirements

1) Means: produce them cheap and they should not last much longer than the warranty period.
One of the best examples for this is BMW. 30 years ago Reitzle would have thrown the engineer out of his office if he would have proposed the cheap engineering and manufacturing solutions BMW using nowadays.
BMW was one of the best car manufacturer for suppliers back then. They let the suppliers live well and so the products were high quality. Then one day they created a system which calculates the parts prices with a big red pen and leaves nearly no air to the supplier. Ever since, quality is constantly going down and the profit for the Quandt Family is raising steadily.
They rather spend some money to keep up a service car fleet and this way they keep themselves out of any official breakdown statistic. People still buy their cars because the emblem still shines brightly...

2) Legal pressure from Brussels ties the hands of the development engineers.
All the stuff car makers put under the hood to satisfy the environmental requirements are making the cars more and more complicated and prone to failures. People want big cars but these should be gentle to the environment. This can only work on paper.
You have now small engines, whit twin or triple turbos, complicated exhaust cleaning and rerouting systems which are barely managing to satisfy the required emission values. The whole system is so heavy and complicated that it eats up all the proposed economy which it should achieve. (It's no wonder why VW is cheating...)

Pedestrian protection and NCAP requirements are prohibiting stylists to sketch unique and exiting looking cars.
From the front most cars look the same nowadays only the "decals" in form of different cooling openings and the lamps give some hint which car you see actually. The side of the cars are rather the opposite and are over loaded with all sorts of lines, sharp or smooth, deep or shallow. That's the only place where designers can be "creative".
And on the rear you see those chromy, plastic, fake exhaust pipe frames masquerading those tiny pipes two inches behind.
Marketing wants us to believe that everything is exiting, new and 21st century but as soon as you look under the facade all is cheap plastic and fake.

Gone are the days of a "shark nose" 6 series, pop up headlights or the sleek elegance of an E38...

I must admit that I would have rather worked half a decade earlier in this industry.
Those were the exiting times and most people I ask think that old and young timer are much nicer looking and better cars.
So let's preserve and enjoy our 8's as long as we can.

Cheers
Steve

I concur with the sentiments and observations made previously. We are contemplating Contract Hire (though our business) for our daily driver and the intial options are Mercedes, BMW or Audi. Being replaced is our 2001 X5 which, although gorgeous to drive as a Motorway muncher, has cost us a fortune in failing parts. It has had three radiators, two header tanks, several hoses, one (water cooled) alternator, several lower front ball joints, several rear suspension bushes, two head units, etc etc. Compromising a premium brand by fitting sub-standard components is a sure fire way to put the general public off buying - hence the strong fleet car sector. Mercedes, as Graham puts it, is a lovely waft of a drive and has all the bells and whistles but just doesn't get you by the seat of the pants! Audi is just boring.

Whatever happens, although it doesn't make financial sense, I will keep my 840 even if it gets little use - just to remind me what a "real" car drives like. I guess it must be like a pilot getting out of a Jumbo Jet and climbing into a spitfire for some real flying experience! You just feel the road through every sense - it keeps you alert - you experience the drive and are not simply a "passenger" sat in the driving seat.

I get asked many times why I have the cars that I have, its because they all drive an little different from each other, and look total different from new cars. And when I park up there is always some one wanting to have a talk about the car I may even take them for a spin and let them live the dream.

Jango: That's certainly a collection! Do you have a favourite?

Quote from anguswolfendale;129264

Jango: That's certainly a collection! Do you have a favourite?

Doohhh
Ofcourse its the one first mentioned

Yes and quite a nice collection too.

Would it be presumptuous to assume they are already in order of favouritism!!

Hm, our latest purchase gives us a "back to the roots" feeling!

Quote from anguswolfendale;129264

Jango: That's certainly a collection! Do you have a favourite?

I dnot have a favourite but they all excel in there own way
996 turbo best all round car but not many people come over and have chat with me about it.
Lotus Carlton fast in straight lines and its a hero car.
944 turbo 2nd best all round car.
ranger rover best winter and tow car and lots off old guys like to take a look.
TR7 v8 rally car best track car
850 csi big powerful tank and looks cool, timeless shape, not as fast as the Carlton but goes round bends better.

I think you must be driving boring cars then

I am not of the same opinion.
My previous daily driver, an E46 M3 was incredibly fun to drive.
While my current M550d Touring is on the comfortable side, this car can be almost as fun as the old M3, with active suspension and swaybars this massive car can be thrown around just about as much as the M3.

While I love driving the 850 I can't help feel disappointed in many ways. The sluggish steering, the tram lining at low speeds forcing me to do constant corrections and the 4 speed auto.
The car is not really comfortable to ride before you hit 120km/h, then it kind of settles and is nice an planted on the road.
It does have it upsides too, the sound is better, it gets attention and stares the others did not.

But I am glad its not my daily driver.......

Quote from NickF;129295

I used to drive my 850 every day and it was fine, but I know what you mean. I think the E46 M3 is basically an old school BMW. It wasn't very different from the E36 that came out in the early 90s when BMWs were good. The M550d appeals as it's stupidly fast and I'd guess reasonably frugal, but the current 5 series doesn't do much for me visually and despite the vast speed I'd guess it's fundamentally a bit boring. I've driven several lesser F10 5 series and they were good, but dull. Sadly we don't get the M550d in the UK which is a shame, as the M5 is saloon only and thirsty. They also depreciate like there's no tomorrow. Anyone owned a Panamera or similar? I wonder if Porsche manage the functional yet interesting a bit better.

Yes the E46 M3 is a old car, mine was 10 years old when I sold it, and it was an -04, that M3 has been around for 14 years now, and the E46 chassis is 18 years old now.
I guess one of the major advantages the M550d has over the other 5's is that it still has a hydraulic steering, not electric like the normal 5's.
Also the active suspension is a MUST HAVE on a 5, or its a lardy beast, the electronic dampers and the active anti roll bars really transforms the handling of the car.
Its not an exciting car when it comes to looks, I agree with that, but it has just the right balance between comfort and sportiness that I need in a daily driver albeit it might be a bit large for my use. The suspension, steering and engine can change from comfortably floating across cobblestone city streets and speed bumps, to being able to throw it around corners on country roads with the push of a button.

That said, I just might go for a Mercedes next time, or AMG.... not really a Mercedes....
I dont like the looks of the new BMW's, and for all the greatness of the M550d it really lacks a proper engine sound.
The new C63 AMG looks better than any new BMW, has a fantastic sounding V8 and is the size and weight of a 3 series with 5 series comfort. I really think that is a very good car and after 15 years with BMW's I might give it a chance..... after all I still have the 850 in the garage.

Quote from 8Harry8;129276

Hm, our latest purchase gives us a "back to the roots" feeling!

I used to have one of these - superb across rough country because of the super soft suspension, loads of space but performance is dire and the heater is none existent - having to drag warm air all the way back from the engine area. Still, iconic and make greater little campers!

Quote

But aren't Mercedes for old men? (sorry Graham )

The ones I drive are Nick, but methinks Egil is in a different league. AMG's are fantastic but so very subtle which I guess makes them all the more appealing. If I was shelling out £60-£100K I would want everyone to be in no doubt about what I was driving

Quote from NickF;129295

Anyone owned a Panamera or similar? I wonder if Porsche manage the functional yet interesting a bit better.

I have been quite smitten with the Porsche Macan in recent months and have followed a few reviews. It appears that even a low volume manufacturer such as Porsche has succumbed to many of the good points raised by Steve in an earlier thread. The Macan has fetched premiums recently due to short supply but delivery is catching up. On the face of it they seem like a good alternative to BMW and Audi but the reviews concluded that their quality was questionable and not nearly in the same league as the more expensive Cayenne.

Good time to go and fill up the 8 with fuel now less than £1/litre

Quote from NickF;129298

But aren't Mercedes for old men? (sorry Graham ;))

Yes on the spot , heres the typical Mercedes drivers, welcome to the club Egil

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Quote from huldra66;129305

Yes on the spot , heres the typical Mercedes drivers, welcome to the club Egil

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I've just bought the E220D Estate AMG Night Hawk - am I old??