840 CISPORT v 850CSI ???

    This is merely my opinion so please read on.


    On saturday I booked an appointment to view and test drive a 1996 N reg 850 csi In sorento blue or something like that. It had all the toys so it was fully loaded with every extra on the list.
    When I turned up my first impressions were "hmmmm very nice as it was in good condition although I did notice some corrective paint work to the passenger rear quarter. Now this car had covered 78000 miles with full BMW service history and 3 owners. I turned on the ignition and fired up the V12.My thoughts were "wooow what a great sound track" It sounded awsome. So off I went for a drive.
    Now this is where it all begins. The 850CSI is supposed to have 380bhp. A friend of mine owned one of these cars before I bought my 99 model 840ci sport with the individual spec. I remember telling him that what I really wanted was an 850CSI. He at the time told me not to even bother as he believed that an 840ci sport was overall better to drive and maintain and also stated that the 850csi was no faster .
    To his advice I ignored him hence why a booked an appointment to view this one...... Anyways......


    At first Im must say the car felt solid through the gears and was nice to drive and it should do for the asking price of £19000.00 pounds.
    But to my amazement i sadly have to agree with my friend. Where was that extra 94BHP?? in comparrison to my 4.4 V8 286BHP.
    It sounded quick but didnt go or feel quick. Everytime i was climbing through the gears I was expecting a burst of phantom power and accleration. Im not saying its not fast coz it is . Its very fast but it felt no faster than my 840ci sport in the steptronic mode.
    I used to own a 98 model M3 EVO with 321bhp. And that was faster infact faster than the 850csi I dont care what anyone says.
    Whilst the 850csi wears the novelty and my sincere respect to M division for what ever it was that they contributed towards the csi i must say they didnt do a particularly wonderfull job.
    So to those who own an 840CI/850i/850ci and 840ci sport if you ever felt left out then guys please dont!! Because theres nothing to feel left out about. Particularly those who own the 840CI SPORT. Believe me you got a better package.


    I was going to part exchange my 840ci sport in velvet blue but I think I'll hang on just yet.
    To those members who own an 850CSI what can I say ...... Its a great car but no greater than the rest of the range of engines. The 850csi wears the novelty but its just a shame it doesnt deliver what it really should... M power performance and before those of you reply and state "well it never was a proper M car" Either way Im sorry but for a car that has a V12 unit with 380 bhp I expect performance which should out run the 840 ci sport by miles.


    So the conclusion.... those who were thinking of trading in your old 8 for a 850csi dont!!! Alternatively Buy an E39 M5 which will out run the 850csi by miles in every way but one "The looks"


    Like I said this is merely my opinion and Im sticking to my guns

    Stick to your opiniono


    I read (and re-read) your post.


    Rather than take issue with you point-by-point, I decided to forget it as I believe your opinion was based on one experience with an 850CSi that may or may have not been correctly set up.


    Also, I wondered if you had the car in K mode (Komfort) instead of S mode (Sport). Big difference in throttle response.


    As someone who has driven all 8 models, there is a true difference between an 840 and 850CSi. An 850CSi will out-perfrom an 840CiA Sport hands down. Where's Tristan Ward when you need him (grin).


    Therefore, rather than waste bandwidth, your opinion goes unchallennged by myself because I just don't think you had the right experience with an 850CSi and that your opinions are just that: opinions.


    Cheers,

    Like Jud, I wont argue on what you found but I have an 840 with a litle more than the norm and trust me, it was between the CSI and divorce!


    The one I experienced was being pussy footed with the ASC knocking power off as the tyres worked soooooooooo hard to not squeal like stuck pigs. The owner, nice guy was being very gentle and even then I can tell you my 840 wuld not be in the same street.


    All that aside, for an every day ride Iwould be opting for the little feller but for a collectors issue or a Sunday ride, sorry to disagree but there really is no substitute for cubic inches


    Love them both and if I could hide it from "she who must be obeyed" nI would add the Csi to the stable!


    Cheers

    THEO HOFFS
    MELBOURNE'S CLUB of EIGHTS/
    PIECES of EIGHTS PARTS
    VICTORIA
    AUSTRALIA

    Very interesting debate,


    But i think i could now kick the ass off a CSI. :shock:


    That confidence comes from having a supercharger boosting the power up to 400 Bhp,& 450 ft lbs of Torque :D this baby is a monster in sport mode, still i guess we'll never know untill some Csi driver wants to find out :!::D


    Having said all this a must say i'd have a Csi like a shot but given the amounts i have spent on mine,it is'nt going to happen :wink:

    Those who risk nothing,achieve nothing,become nothing.

    Are you up to 400 Horsepwer old fella?


    Be carefull now, dont hurt yourself.


    and how does it fry tyres with the 3.9? quickly, I imagine!


    cheers froom the pill popper!

    THEO HOFFS
    MELBOURNE'S CLUB of EIGHTS/
    PIECES of EIGHTS PARTS
    VICTORIA
    AUSTRALIA

    The diff isn't in yet, but i'm taking the car in next week to have a new SC fitted under warranty(oil leak) :( then they are doing the 6 pot brake upgrade & fitting the diff :D , but i'm building up a stock of rear tyres for when needed :shock: & then i'm done with the modifications :lol: Nothing else left to do :lol:

    Those who risk nothing,achieve nothing,become nothing.

    Nope


    I never said my 840 ci sport was faster. My point was for a car with such a big bhp out put and 5.6 litres of engine im sorry but even my cousins Mitsubishi evo 6 kicks the shit out of my car and the 850csi........ and its only 4 cylinders producing 350bhp My point was where is that extra 94 BHP and "yes" I drove it in both k and s mode. And believe me this CSI was set up good and well.


    Like I said merely my opinion.

    Ywo cars i'd never try it on with


    Mitsubishi Evo & Subaru Impretza Both road going versions of rally specials :lol: the subaru i had a go in left me shaking at the knees such was my adreneline rush,without doubt the fastest excelerating car i've been in, would have bought one but oh my god what about the looks :shock:

    Those who risk nothing,achieve nothing,become nothing.

    BHP does not tell you how a car performs, it is a meaningless figure. The only way to detrmine the performance of a car is to look at the torque curve, the gear ratios and the car weight.
    Of course, if like Steve you increase the BHP of the same car, and change nothing else you will get better performance, but you will if you reduce the weight, or change the gear ratios. But comparing the BHP only of 2 cars will not tell you anything about how they compare when driving.


    For more semi-technical details have a look at


    http://www.e31.net/navmisc_e.html

    840ci sport


    Im not saying the 850csi is a bad car. If I had the spare cash I'd most probably buy one to satisfy my ego coz then I'd be thinking I own the top of the range 8 series. At the moment I have some 10K cash and I can easily buy an 850csi by part exchaning mine.. But Ive decided that this money will be well worth spent on my 99 s reg 840Ci sport. This will include replacing all drive shaft and steering components such as ball joints tie rods shocks,bushes, Wish bones etc etc. Mines due for a complete over haul underneath also inc brand new exhaust system.
    The interior will be re trimmed and new paint by stephen james in enfield. All body trims and plastics are being replaced also . But i know this will strecth a little further than 10k.
    But at least I wil know what the car is all about in the end rather than having spent another 10 to 15 k buying another 8 series which would have most probably needed all of the above.

    Having owned both the 840 wins hands down


    Owned both a 1991 850 i (not a csi) and now own a 1995 840 CiA.
    The 850 was a gasaholic, and tempermental with the throttlebodies in this 98 degree humid climate (maybe) and the EML was an ongoing pain.
    The car was powerful but ith the lack of motorways here a waste.
    In Hong Kong traffic and hilly roads miserable just ate up gas 7-8 mpg !!
    The 840 is a joy 28 mpg and Ive spent a pretty penny making it like new ...see other threads and its just incredible to drive now and would recommend the V8 over the V12...but then I reckon everyone should own a V12 once in their lives. Im now having fun with both my 840 and my 3.2 Carrera..

    Richard
    840 Ci Individual
    1995 factory CSi sport kit
    Ferrari 599 GT Red
    Hong Kong

    7-8mpg looks awful, but then so is most of the Hong Kong traffic. Hate to think what I'd get from the B12, with 19-20 on open UK roads and a reasonable amount of heavy right foot.


    Paul

    money money money


    Funny you sad that steve p 840 coz thats exactly what im aiming for.
    Im just gutted that I couldnt own one of these cars from brand new. I would have kept it in mint mint mint condition. I cant believe some people take such beautiful cars like the 8 series etc for granted. Mines not bad for the year but id love to and am going to overhaul the whole car over and under inside and out. I doubt it will be ready for august but watch this space.


    P.s I will be having loads of 8 series items for sale such as plastics exhaust system etc etc. Not coz it needs replacing but coz i just want the car to look the dogs balls. Mines a velvet blue an i must say its one of those colours that need extra looking after. The guy who is going to spray it for me did suggest a change of colour. Idlove to gave it sprayed in black or orient blue or imola red. But i think this will spoil the cars novelty and originality?? Id like to get the whole dash board and upper door panels dressed/covered in leather like the old six.

    Very hilly


    Zitat von Peter West

    7-8 mpg must mean a problem somewhere. When I push mine hard around country lanes in sports mode (1991 850i auto) I still get an average of 15mpg and 27 on motorways.


    **
    Very hilly ...like the Ventnor Isle of Wight !
    regards
    Richard

    7-8mpg looks awful, but then so is most of the Hong Kong traffic. Hate to think what I'd get from the B12, with 19-20 on open UK roads and a reasonable amount of heavy right foot.


    i just picked up on your B12 quote :D i didn't realise we had a active Alpina member :!: Please give us more info on your car :lol:

    Those who risk nothing,achieve nothing,become nothing.

    When I was bored in London traffic once I started playing with the buttons and hit the MPG readout, 3.8mpg!, turned that off damn quick. Bloody V12s!

    93 850 CSI
    hung like Einstein, clever as a horse

    Just to add my 2p's worth to this arguement- sorry- discussion.


    I have driven the 850i, the 840Ci, the 850CSi, and the B12-5.7.


    The 840Ci is definately as quick as the 850i and if you get one of the later UK, sports models, will handle better on the road too.


    The CSi, is the better car, but it does not feel that much quicker, and even on paper you're only talking 1 second difference to 100km/h.... and that's comparing a manual to an auto. (I believe the 840Ci manual is within 0.6 secs of the CSi).


    ... and you must remember here that the 840Ci sport has similar suspension and final drive set-up to the CSi.


    The best brakes are definately on the CSi, with the larger, ///M floating discs (Euro-spec). The 840Ci is probably the next best and the 850i brakes sometimes make you wonder whether the car's going to stop.


    The CSi of course, also has the AHK, rear axle steering, which does help to improve handling in cornering or lane-change manouvres. There's also a limited slip differential and the engine has 25% more torque, reving higher than the 4.4 litre V8.


    The B12 sounds better than the CSi, but there is little or no difference in performance (maybe 0.1 sec), although it does have a nicer interior and
    oh(!) that bonnet.


    Bimmerman's point however, was that the CSi does not feel that much quicker than the 840 and I think I agree on this point. All the above would suggest more than a one second difference between the two and I think that this was his point.


    Also, the rated power of the 840Ci is based on 95-RON fuel, whereas the CSi requires 98-RON to achieve its quoted 380bhp. If you put 98 in the 840, you'll probably get over 300bhp.




    [/i]

    At the end of the day I think theyre all fast and fast enough.


    I sometimes drive mine as if I was driving a subaru..... like hell basically. And if you think about it the car was designed and marketed as a luxury GT cruiser. Ofcourse with the right mods and enough money no doubt it will out preform even the most advanced cars even today.


    Ive just bought another 8 in white.


    I paid £200.00 pounds honest and I will be showing pictures very soon.


    its a 850i fully loaded with immaculate black leather and although im in two minds wether i should brake it for parts or not if i decide not to it will definately be my toy project


    But I must say the 850csi does have a wonderfull sound track and its a shame really... although its newcomer the new M6 has all the technology and speed it just doesnt have that special touch...


    Class..... beauty like those lovely lines on the 8 and most important of all the 8 is an iconic car that allways out performs the rest when it comes to sendimental value

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