B12

97 5.0 litre and 57 5.7 Litre& of those 57 only 7 RHD

I looked this up only last week

Yes, but the interesting thing is that out of those 7, a few were based on the normal 850i, ie a "WBA..." VIN number, and not the "WBS..." CSi VIN. Consequently, they lacked certain items, such as the additional engine-oil cooler and improved-ratio steering. None of them had the stainless-steel flowed, exhaust manifold that the Euro versions had. (Maybe it wasn't economical to produce the exhaust for such few numbers as the Euro version would not fit due to the steering being on the other side.) Consequently, the claimed 415 BHP may have been somewhat lower on the UK/RHD versions. I think the 5.7 engine was given a slightly longer stroke than the 5.6, but is only about 70cc more in capacity. The cams were changed, though.

This Old favorite of this Forum most certainly is
http://www.thealpinaregister.c…rs.php?range=50&model=682

Yes, I had a test-drive in No.10. Really nice car, like new! Interior was Nappa leather, though- not buffalo. No AHK, no oil-cooler etc (WBA... VIN). Fantastic colour and interesting 2001 first-registration (FAST).

Yes, the Sytner conversions are very controversial (the cars that Arnie refers to in his posts).

Officialy, per Alpina, the only RHD 8er's that were processed by Bucholoe and were given an Alpina Nbr/VIN are:

• Alpina B12 5.0 - 2 RHD
  
  
  • D110064 - Sultan of Brunei
  • D110065 - Sultan of Brunei

  
  
  

• Alpina B12 5.7 - 4 RHD
  
  
  • D200008 (based on a M70 850i 6spd)
  • D200010 (based on a M70 850i 6spd)
  • D200013 (based on a M70 850i 6spd)
  • D200047 (based on an 850CSi)

  
  
  

The cars processed by Sytner are:

• CB27063 (based on a M70 850i 6spd, for sale last year)
• CB57486
• CB57526
• CB57592
• CB57850

The controversy about these five conversion cars continues to this day. Owners of these five cars claim they are real Alpinas. After looking at all of the facts, the corporate issues between Sytner (including Nicole/Japan) as an Alpina distributor and Alpina itself in cloning cars, the Synter cars are, IMHO, not real Alpinas. The people who own these cars claim otherwise, but at the end of the day, they are not factory produced Alpinas with unique Alpina Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN).

The Alpina Registry Agent lists the Sytner cars in the Registry, despite the questionable authenticity. I support his listing of the cars because Sytner did sell many of the components to make a base 850i as close to as an Alpina as customer budget would allow. Also, Sytner put a crazy numbered plaque (e.g. 9430) in these cars with Alpina lettering. However, it leads to incorrect conclusions about how many B12 5.0 RHD's were actually produced by Alpina in Buchloe.

Prior discussion of the Sytner cars can be found here:
http://www.8er.org/forum/showt…p?t=5037&highlight=Alpina

Zitat von Steve5;60391

Do we know if any are still running?

All official RHD Alpina B12 5.0/5.7's produced are still in service as of January 2009.

Zitat von stevep840;60384

97 5.0 litre and 57 5.7 Litre& of those 57 only 7 RHD I looked this up only last week

The correct answers are:

Alpina B12 5.0 - 97

• 95 - LHD
• 2 - RHD

Alpina B12 5.7 - 57

• 53 - LHD
• 4 - RHD
• (you quoted 7 of the 57 were RHD, which is incorrect)

So when I win lotto D200047 is the car I need to buy

Can you tell us which chassis' have the real 6 speed and the funny switchtronic?

Zitat von Jud;60420

The correct answers are:

Alpina B12 5.0 - 97

• 95 - LHD
• 2 - RHD

Alpina B12 5.7 - 57

• 53 - LHD
• 4 - RHD
• (you quoted 7 of the 57 were RHD, which is incorrect)

Alles anzeigen

Well there you Go, I bow to yur Far Superior knowledge

Jud,

the car that I went to see and was initially interested in, was one of a pair that came back from the sultan of Brunei. It was for sale by Maxted Page on behalf of Lord Bamford (JCB). The car did have the official Alpina Plaque with production number (No.10, I belive). I also supplied the VIN number to Alpina in Germany, who were able to confirm the spec and origins of the car. However, it did have a chassis number beginning with WBA... and lacking some components that other (later?) B12/5.7 had, such as AHK etc. I can't say whether the engine was really an M70, but it did have the Alpina intake manifold and the exhaust sound was definately not 850.

My theory was that it may have been ordered at short notice, so that Aplina had to use an 850 car instead of waiting for a CSi to convert (?)

It was really a beautiful car, but at the end of the day, I figured that it was missing a few key items and that a real CSi might infact offer better performance for a lot less money, albeit without the amazing bonnet.

I probably still have the paperwork somewhere and will check the VIN number for you.

Alpina themselves only mentioned that at the time, not all 5.7 cars were based on the CSi but could not comment further. Incidentally, the other one of the pair, a blue one, had all the relevant CSi bits and I seem to recall it may have been Alpina production number 013.

I had also contacted Sytner at the time, who said that they collected the pair from Malaysia and had replaced all the perishable parts (hoeses, tyres etc), but that they still suffered from occasional electrical Gremlins from many years of not being used while stored in a humid climate. In fact, the interior trim on the one I saw was wrinkled and peeling slightly on the door panels.

Zitat von arnie;60434

the car that I went to see and was initially interested in, was one of a pair that came back from the sultan of Brunei. It was for sale by Maxted Page on behalf of Lord Bamford (JCB). The car did have the official Alpina Plaque with production number (No.10, I belive). I also supplied the VIN number to Alpina in Germany, who were able to confirm the spec and origins of the car. However, it did have a chassis number beginning with WBA... and lacking some components that other (later?) B12/5.7 had, such as AHK etc. I can't say whether the engine was really an M70, but it did have the Alpina intake manifold and the exhaust sound was definately not 850.

My theory was that it may have been ordered at short notice, so that Aplina had to use an 850 car instead of waiting for a CSi to convert (?)

Arnie, this is well documented about Nbrs 8, 10, and 13. They were indeed RHD M70 850Ci 6spds ordered by Alpina because the order book for 850CSi's were backlogged and the 1st RHD 850CSi came out December 1992, many months after LHD 850CSi production began. Alpina has confirmed BMW and Alpina VINs for these cars (FYI: the Inventory Project also included securing BMW build sheets for Alpinas and a related matching process).

Let me direct you to this URL that will have you begin the journey of learning more about the background on these M70 850Ci 6spds that became 5.7's:
http://forums.roadfly.com/foru…series-e31/8460548-1.html

Zitat von arnie;60434

It was really a beautiful car, but at the end of the day, I figured that it was missing a few key items and that a real CSi might infact offer better performance for a lot less money, albeit without the amazing bonnet.

I probably still have the paperwork somewhere and will check the VIN number for you.

Thank you. As previosuly mentioned, we have already secured BMW VINs for these cars.

Zitat von arnie;60434

Alpina themselves only mentioned that at the time, not all 5.7 cars were based on the CSi but could not comment further. Incidentally, the other one of the pair, a blue one, had all the relevant CSi bits and I seem to recall it may have been Alpina production number 013.

Yes, Alpina retrofitted the three RHD M70 850Ci 6spds to whatever parts they could acquire to bring them closer to the designed B12 5.7. Alpina's PR in 1992 was to extol how they were going to take the 850CSi and use it as the basis for their B12 5.7. Other than the three RHD M70 850Ci 6spds, Alpina also secured 3 LHD M70 850Ci 6spds for some early B12 5.7's.

Zitat von arnie;60434

I had also contacted Sytner at the time, who said that they collected the pair from Malaysia and had replaced all the perishable parts (hoeses, tyres etc), but that they still suffered from occasional electrical Gremlins from many years of not being used while stored in a humid climate. In fact, the interior trim on the one I saw was wrinkled and peeling slightly on the door panels.

That is my understanding as well about B12 5.7 D200010.

Wow, thanks for the explanations. (I'd forgotten that i'd written some of thpse comments in one of teh links!) I do sometimes regret not having bought that No.10, but overall I am happy with my CSi, which I drive daily, and I think the former is best maintained for collectors.

The Ultimate Car Fanatic.........

Interesting......

Over the years it seems The Sultan of Brunei has purchased 55 (that's Fifty-Five) 850s

And not one 840....so there you go...something to bring up over the Christmas Dinner.

Oh, I forgot to mention he has another 2740 cars including..
4 Bugatti 110EB
9 Mclaren F1s
78 Astons
16 Jag XJ220s
160 Porsche
362 Bentleys
719 Mercs
130 Rolls-Royce
15 Harleys
5 Mondeos
4 Ford Transits
2 London Cabs
1 Fiat Cinquecento
1 Vauxhall Caravelle
And only 1 Lotus Esprit

I wonder how many forums he visits?

I wonder if this is a real Alpina or a copy advertised last year.

Zitat von koenig dave;60445

I wonder if this is a real Alpina or a copy advertised last year.

As previously mentioned in my post:

• CB27063 (based on a M70 850i 6spd, for sale last year)

This vehicle was the only 6spd cloned by Synter. The rest were automatic transmission cars.

As Dave will attest, he knew the answer to this question. Dave and I exchanged emails on this very car on 28-Jan-2009 and it was explained at that time that this is one of the Synter cars. Thank you Dave for bringing it up back again. You're on the ball sir.

It's somewhat easier to copy the 5.0 versions.

Now, if someone would only come up with a convincing replica to the 5.7 bonnet....;-)

Arnie - Tell Me About It !

Zitat von arnie;60449

It's somewhat easier to copy the 5.0 versions.

Now, if someone would only come up with a convincing replica to the 5.7 bonnet....;-)

What about the German guy Thomas Engle version 1700 Eur painted to match your car

looks VERY convincing to me;-)