M5 V10 into an 8 ?

Zitat von 900ss;73755

Assuming you had a 5ltr V10 engine and gearbox package from a M5 or M6

Would it physically fit into a 8 series, or would the body shell need modding before it would fit?

Well it fits into an E30, so why wouldnt it fit into the V12 capable E31 bay!?

haha now that would beat your Misses Subaru on a drag strip!

Im certain it would fit in the engine bay - if it can take a V12! however youd need extensive work - new engine mounts, tranny mounts, er custom-made driveshafts/ output shafts etc... not to mention someone clever enough to figure out the whole wiring situation.

I cant imagine how much it would cost - say an initial 6-8k (a new V10 from BMW is about £7500) for low mls engine/box/ecu/loom and then lord knows how much on fabrication & installation costs. So IF it can be done i wouldnt deam it worth the cost or effort! plus your going to have to strengthen the chassis, custom exhaust possibly headers, uprate the open diffs to limited slip to cope with all the power etc etc

Im sure Gerry could give you a good guesstimate.

I recall a post a while back about an 8 in Germany with such a mod, and something to do with submarines

Its been done recently in the USA (California), I believe with M5 engine/drive train. Company may have been called AutoWerks -- it was written up in one of the BMW mags within the last 12 months, but I dont recall which one.
Apparently an enormous effort in fabrication, fitting, fettling and especially getting the various vintages of control modules to talk to each other.
Cost undisclosed, but WAY high -- suggestions of 2 to 3 times actual value of car

Physically fitting the V10 will probably be the easiest part

Zitat von Benji 840Ci Sport;73766

... an initial 6-8k (a new V10 from BMW is about £7500)...

21K is the latest EUR figure for the bare engine. I doubt that the pound has risen that much lately

There is one Austrian guy who at first converted an E30 into a Biturbo S50B38 monster, sold the engine prior to everything being ready and now started to build that E30 around the V10. Full story here (German language only but great pictures)

The "whole wiring situation" which today is so much more than only wiring will be what costs most in such an endeavour. Most of the ECUs in a modern car talk to each other these days and react pretty upset once one has gone missing.
In essence it may end up in an "all or nothing" situation, eg free programmable ECUs vs. the whole E60 shebang.

A few V8 M5 (S62B50) conversions into an E31 have been attempted. As far as I know none has found perfection so far. It seems way easier and in the end cheaper to look into the forced induction route, be it compressor or turbo based.

Cheers
Reinhard

PS: the US conversion mentioned above is documented here. This was based on the E39 M5 V8 engine. I seem to remember someone mentioning that not all was well apart from looks.

Zitat von 330newbie;73769

Its been done recently in the USA (California), I believe with M5 engine/drive train. Company may have been called AutoWerks -- it was written up in one of the BMW mags within the last 12 months, but I dont recall which one.
Apparently an enormous effort in fabrication, fitting, fettling and especially getting the various vintages of control modules to talk to each other.
Cost undisclosed, but WAY high -- suggestions of 2 to 3 times actual value of car

You beat me to it Keith, I was just trying to find the article, I think it was in BMWCar

EDIT: here you go: http://coastmotorwerk.com/images/bmwcar1207.pdf

and discussion over on Bimmerforums: http://forums.bimmerforums.com…hp?p=18607889&postcount=2

Zitat

Cost undisclosed, but WAY high -- suggestions of 2 to 3 times actual value of car

Plus whos going to buy the car at sale time when the price tag would likely be more than twice that of an original example?

Hi Jason
Good find -- knew I'd read the article, but didn't have a copy of the magazine anywhere

Noggie has a good idea in one of the threads - twin turbo V12 from a 760!!! now that would be awesome...and just as expensive.

You seen the performance out of the E30 S85'd V10?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS5yDet6ngI

Iits not just the length of the engine its the height and the slope of the 8 bonnet that needs to be considered .

Zitat von Rob750;73778

Iits not just the length of the engine its the height and the slope of the 8 bonnet that needs to be considered .

Thats true actually.

Personally I think the perfect compromise (ie real world, every day) engine would be a tuned 635d (/335d/535d) Twin Turbo 3.0l Diesel unit. 350BHP with a remap and (alot) more torque than a S85 V10 engine (handy for pulling the heavy e31 frame). Yes its a diesel and they are inheriently unattractive for a number of reasons, but 40mpg and massive power is an intoxicating mix...

Think of it as the unofficial M Diesel.

Yep...you have a point here. torque..or low end torque, is whats needed to get the 8 rolling... maybe you could fit bigger turbo's too?

In an ideal world id look at forging/porting/flowing/camming & twin-turbo an M60 or M62 V8 engine with an aftermarket ECU that can run various maps.

Zitat von mattsimis;73779

Thats true actually.

Personally I think the perfect compromise (ie real world, every day) engine would be a tuned 635d (/335d/535d) Twin Turbo 3.0l Diesel unit. 350BHP with a remap and (alot) more torque than a S85 V10 engine (handy for pulling the heavy e31 frame). Yes its a diesel and they are inheriently unattractive for a number of reasons, but 40mpg and massive power is an intoxicating mix...

Think of it as the unofficial M Diesel.

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Zitat von mattsimis;73776

You seen the performance out of the E30 S85'd V10?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS5yDet6ngI

I'm not at all convinced by that video

take another look,once the e30 canes it, there is no change in engine note from the V8 M3 & believe me they are loud, no changes in gears either

Zitat von Benji 840Ci Sport;73780

Yep...you have a point here. torque..or low end torque, is whats needed to get the 8 rolling... maybe you could fit bigger turbo's too?

On those lines, it maybe more technically and financially achieveable to get an older model 530d (single turbo) engine and strap a big turbo to it. Older should mean easier to integrate. No DPF so breathes better etc... but quite the smokescreen I would say!

Zitat von 900ss;73755

Assuming you had a 5ltr V10 engine and gearbox package from a M5 or M6

Would it physically fit into a 8 series, or would the body shell need modding before it would fit?

Look here, G-Power has a solution for you

http://www.8er.org/forum/showpost.php?p=60251&postcount=17

http://www.8er.org/forum/showt…?t=1949&highlight=g-power

Web address for G-power christoph? is it http://www.g-power.de/275.html?L=1 ? ...no prices i see!?

Im certain if the M62 was stripped down and modified with a good twin-turbo (just go with the generic Garrett's) setup you could easily see north of 500bhp. In fact, with a meticulous build and looking into a bore increase to 5.0L, increased stroke, high lift cam profiles, port & polish the head, forged rods and pistons (CP already make them) etc uprated oil pumps/water pump and baffled sump, and fueling (larger injectors and maybe modified fuel rails) / custom induction - twin filters as per V12, S62 V8 etc / custom exhaust and equaled headers and balanced/lightened flywheel etc you could realise an absolute torque-monster of a powerhouse.

Again it would be imperative to install a programeable ECU (Possibly Motec) to run various maps and monitor knock settings, fueling, turbo boost etc

- all that alone could cost you less than the price of a second hand V10 and tranny.

Plus im sure the standard Ci sport auto box would be able to take the extra 200 or so horsies.

Obviously the brakes, suspension geometry and fuel pump would also have to be revised but that would have to be done with the V10 anyway if your doing it properly.

The reason id look at the M62 is its a smaller footprint engine allowing for turbos either side and pipework and an intercooler / oil coolers.

It would take a very competant engine builder / tuner to execute this task but i do know a few who would be interested from my past skyline days.

Zitat von Christoph;73790

Look here, G-Power has a solution for you

http://www.8er.org/forum/showpost.php?p=60251&postcount=17

http://www.8er.org/forum/showt…?t=1949&highlight=g-power

right...now i have a headache...caused by one question. Can you turbo a BMW VANOS engine. Would it be a case of adjusting the timing? or would the way in which the intricate system works ...which as far as i know, is only developed and used in conjuction with normally aspirated engines hinder the addition of turbos due to the introduction of far higher RPM's - would the VANOS be able to cope?