@~'#'''## Dealers - please help -LONG

    :x:x:x


    Guys,


    I need your help / advice / support here please .....


    I posted earlier this week about taking my car (97 Euro 840Ci Auto) into the local dealer to get a bad misfire fixed. The dealer had the car for 7 days before they diagnosed the problem. It turned out to be that a cat (drivers side) needed to be replaced - which was done under my BMW Extended warranty. OK so far.


    On Wednesday this week I drove the car 15 miles along the motorway back to my house. When I got out of the car , there was a small amount of sweet smelling steam coming from under the car (level with front of driver side door.)


    I immediately rang the dealer and they said to take the car back in for a checkover. I was away on business (without my car) on Thurs/Friday so I arranged to take it in this morning (Saturday)


    The first 14 miles of the journey were fine - on the motorway and the temperature outside of +2 degrees C.
    I then came off motorway into town and I noticed that the temperature gauge started to rise above normal.
    At a set of traffic lights clouds of white steam started to come out of the back of the car as I pulled away - and the car stopped running altogether.


    I got the car towed the last 1/2 mile to the dealership where they put it up on the ramp.


    They told me the radiator was empty and that they couldn't do any more test on the car until Monday - when it had cooled down (they close at lunchtime on Saturday for the weekend)


    I said that I considered it almost 100% certain that the work they did on the car - and this issue of leaking coolant were related. i.e. they must have done something to the car to make this happen.


    Their answer was that the cat and the radiator/cooling system are different components and that the loss of coolant must have come from a co-incidentally perished hose that occurred during my initial 15 mile home from the dealership.


    One bogus explanation the mechanic offered was this
    "After we worked on the car we will have probably topped the coolant level up. There could have already been a cracked or leaking hose which hadn't shown the problem due to a previously low coolant level."
    THIS IS COMPLETE RUBBISH - as how come I have driven the car hundreds of miles previously without it stalling / overheating or similar - and yet 15 miles after they finished working on it - leaking steam appeared - and then a further 15 miles and the whole radiator was empty with steam coming out of all exhaust pipes.


    Can anyone help with the following:-


    1) Is it conceivable that during the replacement of the cat - that the exhaust system needed to be removed (or moved) in such a way that it could have hit/damaged a coolant pipe or similar ? (or are the two physically so far apart that it is unlikely ?)


    2) Supposing the worst HAS happened and the cylinder head gasket has gone - will the remedial work be covered under my BMW Extended Warranty or will I have to claim against the dealership as it was "potentially" their fault ?


    3) If the Cylinder head gasket has gone - what should I insist on being replaced to restore the engine ? Is there anything I need to make sure they do ?


    I feeling pretty low right now - as I have only owned the car for 8 weeks and now have a 316i compact as a loaner.


    As ever, sincere thanks for any help / advice or support you are able to offer.


    Ian.

    Hello Ian.


    I can say that it is very unlikely that the replacement of the cat would have caused this prob.


    There is a plate/hose at the back of the b;ock that alway leaks... this could be your problem. If it is then there is no way that they have caused the problem.


    Where are you located?


    I work for BMW south of the M25.


    If your dealer will not help then take it elsewhere.


    Tristan

    I'm in Glasgow and will hopefully find out tomorrow what happened.


    They say that a hose perished (which isn't covered under warranty) but we don't know the damage until they replace it tomorrow.


    Have to say though - a bit disappointed in lack of response / support from this board.


    22 views of the subject and only 1 kind soul replied :(


    Seems as though everyone more interested in pictures of themselves to worry about me and my F****D UP 8.


    I'm sorry for the rant - just thought that as a community I MAY have got some support over here.


    At least the guys over on Roadfly showed some sympathy :)


    Over and Out


    Ian.

    Ranting


    Ian
    Very sorry to hear about your problems. I think the reason why there has been little response to your problem is that in my opinion the average 8er and I include myself in the group do not have any answers to your problems other than than to think when is it going to happen to me and do I s--it myself now. Although I beleive your problem is a rare one. Spoke to a friend who is employed by BMW on the Marketing side so he was a lot of bloody use. If your using a BMW Dealer. Try, like me and get a goodwill gesture as I do not think a good BMW daeler will let your problem pass.
    Best of Luck.

    Yeah sorry Ian. I read your post and sympathised, but I am not knowledgeable enough to offer you any worthwhile advice :oops:


    I do hope you get satisfaction in the end though, because there but for the grace of god go the rest of us.

    Help


    Ian,
    :evil::evil::evil::evil: Hears a good one for you. If you recall my story about the Cat on my 840 Ci Sport It was fixed and I am very Happy. BUT let me tell you about Shitytner and their reply to my problem, when I was requesting advise. The comment was WE WILL NOT DEAL WITH WARRANTY HOLDINGS. So f--k off or as good as. I then spoke to my local BMW Dealer Damon Hill. Who, looked after my vehicle and as you know sorted the problem and obtained a free Cat for me. So it goes to show that not all BMW dealers are a load of CRAP. But Shitners are. Don,nt use them seek out another BMW dealer. I would never use Shitners for anything. Sorry about my ravings. But don,nt give up even if you speak to your local newspapers or better still speak to BMW Marketing UK and tell them what a shit service you are getting BUT DON,NT GIVE UP
    Big Mac (Alasdair)

    :lol:


    Thanks guys - feels a lot better now :)


    They will fit new hose tomorrow to replace one they say has perished.


    Will then estimate damage to engine.


    Let you all know how it progreses.


    Ian.

    Phew.. picked my car up today from dealers and it turned out to be a hose that had gone and they charged me just over £130 to replace and top everything up again.


    They also agreed to repalce exhaust tip FOC which they damaged.


    Getting new 3.15 LSD fitted next week and Alpina wheels here soon too.


    Can't wait for Spring so I can get started on the detailing.


    Thanks for your help, advice and support.


    Ian.

    Faulty hoses


    I just saw this series of posts concerning Ian's hose problem. It is an absolute RULE of exotic car ownership, that when having one thing done in the shop, if ANY little thing is ready to need attention, it will fail right after leaving the shop. It isn't personal, and it isn't on purpose: it is just a rule of the Automobile God's that hoses, in particular, fail, right after having something else, unrelated attended to.


    I am still learning about the 8 Series cars, and eventually, I think there is one in my future. Right now, my Audi V8 is in the shop where a massive search for a simple little oil leak in the front of the engine has been underway for more than a month. I thought it was an oil sensor, but no. Then the mechanic thought it was the housing that holds the oil filter in place....no. Then it appeared to be the right side camshaft tower gasket, which required complete disassembly of the camshaft cases, removal of the timing belt, the removal of the cooling fans, and so forth.


    AND, while we were THERE, well, we're only half way to the 60,000 mile service, but we might as well do THAT, and replace the timing belt, and of course, since we're THERE, the waterpump should be renewed, and the cambelt rollers AND replacement of the tensioner is mandatory. And oh, yes, we'll just go ahead and replace the hydraulic pump, as that is leaking a bit, and we did say that we would do that at the next 60,000 mile service....


    AND we still have NOT found the oil leak. It wasn't the camshaft towner bushing afterall, or at least, not JUST that.


    Soooo, we took off the heads, and, WOW! It seems like the right side head might have leaked just a tad past the seal at the front and rear. Oh, yes, we also replaced the distributor seals, just to be sure....


    The mechanic thinks that the head gasket on the right side was just defective when new, and it might have started to leak quite a long time ago. Certainly the right side gasket does not look exactly like the the left, and clearly, the sealing line on the gasket isn't as "intact". a


    We're checking the heads, and valves before reassembly as we speak. The valves, and guides all look fine, and we do not think that the head itself is cracked....but all the oil journal plugs will be replaced as a precaution. I have had a wild fantasy about some robuts cams for this engine, but I think that this "maintenance" exercise will flatten the budget for now.


    Oh, and before I forget: we replaced a LOT of other little rubber gizzies, as well as a couple of rubber hoses, that were looking sort of like they might fail....


    So, Ian, I share you pain!

    Sorry


    Hi Ian,


    Sorry to hear about your ordeal.... :cry:


    I've had numerous coolant problems including having to replace the heater matrix which was covered by a dealer warranty. Also had a bottom hose blow on me without warning. That sweet smell is one that you don't forget in a hurry isn't it!


    Hope you get sorted soon and good luck!


    Nick


    PS Please let us know how you get on.....

    Sounds to me like most of you on here rely on having the Dealers fix your cars and get ripped off in the process. I run my 11 year old 850Ci on a tighter budget and tackle most jobs myself; car mechanics ain't rocket science. Full BMW service history is meaningless if the jobs aren't done properly.


    The last Dealer to do an oil service on my car before I bought it was Sytner in Sheffield. On the invoice they had noted a long list of faults found but were they fixed??? Of course not! I have since fixed all of them myself. Well over £100 for an oil and filter change is scandalous.


    John.

    Cheers,


    John.


    E. Yorkshire, UK


    K8PPL 1993 850Ci

    The difference probably is that you have one of the older cars on the board - that perhaps isn't covered under warranty.


    I have to get my car serviced by BMW to keep warranty valid - BUT my limit is £650 per year - including MOT failure !


    That way I get to keep my car as good as new - with limited risk.


    For example my cat replacement would have cost £600 in parts alone - but I got it under warranty.


    Any upgrades I do either myslef or via local BM specialist (non dealer)

    Fair comment Ian. I did, in fact, buy the car with one year's transferrable warranty as the previous owner had purchased a 2-year cover when they bought the car from a dealer. Personally I wouldn't have bothered as it didn't provide as comprehensive a cover as a pukka BMW warranty.


    Just out of interest, what exactly was wrong with the cat to cause the misfire? Was the core breaking up and causing a blockage?


    John.

    Cheers,


    John.


    E. Yorkshire, UK


    K8PPL 1993 850Ci

    The core broke up and the O2 sensors overcompensated making the car msifire badly ...


    WHICH REMINDS ME .. :idea::!::!: WORD OF CAUTION


    Tristan was talking about getting his car "de-catted"


    Tristan - please make sure whoever does this for you knows what they are doing - as the cats in an 8 can cause so much bother - you may also fail the emissions test at MOT ?

    Hmmm, interesting. My son's Fiesta RS1800 suffered a similar problem in that the cat broke up causing a huge loss of power intermittently, but instead of taking my advice he continued to use the car resulting in a burnt exhaust valve on no.2 cylinder. After I rebuilt the cylinder head he had a full de-catted stainless exhaust system fitted and the car goes better than ever.

    I suspect the O2 sensors on the 8 are downstream of the cats whereas on the Fiesta the sensor is upstream and therefore de-catting wasn't a problem.


    When I took my 8 for it's MOT last December it took a lot of engine warming before the exhaust emissions came within spec. For anything other than lengthy journeys the cats are a waste of time and I would question whether their huge cost is justified when one considers the problems they can cause. Political pish in my humble opinion!


    John.

    Cheers,


    John.


    E. Yorkshire, UK


    K8PPL 1993 850Ci

    Glad you're OK now Ian - isn't it amazing how many cat problems have been posted since mine in November ('Misfire when using kickdown' on "Repair & Maintenance" thread. Hope I didn't start an epidemic! :roll:


    Beammer - pardon my ignorance, but why are the cats more useful on lengthy journeys?

    John, catalytic convertors (cats) are fitted to car exhaust systems in order to convert the harmful products of combustion, eg. carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen and unburnt hydrocarbons, into relatively harmless gases.


    Cats only achieve this if they are at their correct high operating temperature, and for short journeys they cannot achieve their full potential, hence my previous statement.


    Another downside is that cats can increase fuel consumption; removing them can increase bhp and save on fuel provided that the ECU is set up accordingly to give correct air/fuel ratios.


    John.

    Cheers,


    John.


    E. Yorkshire, UK


    K8PPL 1993 850Ci

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