Driving the 8 with a conscience ?

Very interesting post Tony, and I think it could be the start of a heated (sorry, bad pun) debate.
My opinion is that I am not overly concerned about the impact of my 8 on the overall environment because:

1) I will not use it every day
2) it will be well maintained and thus it's emissions will be within tolerances (compare with a newer but badly maintained car)
3) The replacement argument is for me BS - I used to drive a 40 year old Sunbeam and had to field questions from greens about its emmissions etc - the argument that normally gets overlooked is the cost and environmental impact of the energy needed and the raw materials required to build a new car. An existing car, even if heavily driven will still not produce as much impact during its entire lifetime as the impact of building a new car.

Being in Switzerland I couldn't see the CH4 programme but it sounds very interesting - what's the basis of the argument? (In contrast to the UK we got "The Day after Tomorrow" to view yesterday, I'm beginning to wonder about the possibility of a conspiracy going on with the Global Warming Topic
Having said all that, I do recycle bottles and paper but that's simply because it's convenient to do so and I don't see the point in wasting raw materials

Tony,

That thought is a 'breath of fresh air'. I don't have all the facts on global warming, but whatever the reason I'm still going ot drive the 8.
To be completely honest, I'm being selfish in this case. I simply love big cars like the 8 to much to give them up. For me the sacrifice would be huge: I'd lose my hobby in which I have been interested all my life. So a little polution seems worth it to me. And yes, I know that is not a logically sound argument. This kind of reasoning would permit everybody to drive 8's and the air (may) get(s) poluted. There is no reason why others can't if I can. Luckilly not everyone enjoys these cars. For sure, we should be thankfull for the Green Movement. At least they don't drive big cars (assuming they are authentic).
So, I'm not even trying to say that an 8 doesn't polute our air. I'm not trying to get a clear conscience either. I just choose the 8 over a little polution.

Cheers, Peter

I'll weigh in on the side of the lesser energy to operate my "recycled" 840 versus the energy used in the manufacture of a new Prius type vehicle.

I still don't understand the Hybrid tag being applied to a gasoline powered vehicle with an electric booster motor installed in the place of the clutch?

To me a real hybrid has always been an Electric with an onboard battery charger system. A small gasoline/propane/hydrogen motor or fuel cell or whatever to extend the range of an Electric to a useful commuting distance.

Until they make affordable high-end performance cars that are electric or Hydro.......I will continue to do what I do with my cars.... don't forget that %20 of the consumed oil by the U.S. is done by its military.... If we truly gave a damn about planet earth then don't you think we ought to address our political grievences around the world which are far more critical and impacting to man's survival, than say the Sun moving closer to earth??? Which is all that Global-warming is.

Cant argue with this topic Tony, im with you 100%. Like you im glad that program was shown, long over due.
To answer your question, i reckon for the small amount of miles i cover in a year i think im well within my quota for burning fuel and creating emissions. BTW, i recycle every thing i can at home and dont waste electric etc etc.
Les

Till they stop making yohgourt pots that take 10000 years to decompose I dont see why I should bother.

To be honest I'd be glad of a few more degrees.

I could not agree more.

Individuals do have a role to play in environmental protection.

However, achieving significant environmental change is a responsibility of government.

Considering I pay 40p (US$0.77) fuel tax per LITRE and an ANNUAL road tax of £643 (US$1,245) for a 4.0 L engine; I think I am subsidising the government here more than my fair share in return for the environmental damage my car is creating. (BTW it has never, ever, failed an emissions test)

Hence, I am very happy to use it as my daily drive.

Keith

The little extra emissions my 8 puts out will in no way ruin this planet.
I'm all for making our way of life more environmently friendly, but lets face it, the emissions that global privat car owners put out is a very litte part of the grand total.
Industry is the main contributor when it comes to possible invironmently "hostile" emissions.

And as Tony said in the beginning, there is NO proof that our emissions effect the global warming.
64 million years ago the climate in northen europe was tropic, and dinosaurs ruled the world.
During this time the number of active volcanos was huge, and the emitted quantities of gasses into the atmosphere that is unbelieveable to even imagine.
10.000 years ago, Europe was covered in ice during the last ice age.
from tropic to completely frozen without any human interference...... maybe the climate really does change on itself??

I can be led to believe that our emissions may have a minute effect on the climate, maybe wok as a catalyst and speed up things by a few years.

But as Natan8 put it, stop making things that takes forever to be broken down, I think litter, garabage and the concequences that follows with the increased amount of crap will kill us before the weather.

OOO i love this subject.............!!!!!!!!

Global Warming, is us?, is it them?, is it anything???
Well lets put it this way i do not subscribe to "we are killing the planet" BS, why are we so arrogant as to assume that we can have any significant impact on the earth. Or another way if it was financially or politically beneficial to governments to make us all stop painting our house white thats what they would make us do. Its like smoking "they say, stop smoking its bad for you and your fellow man", ok I'll grant you that this IS true, but thats not why they want you stop. The reason is because of all strain on our medical services, which costs them money, and they don't want to spend it on that. Had anyone ever considered where the government will get all that lovely tax revenue that they would lose if we all stopped smoking!? guess! you and me from other taxes that they will impose, like road pricing. The point im making is that we are in the same position as the accountant client who is ask's his accountant "Whats 2 + 2?" reply "what do you want it to be?" they will manipulate the climate to suit their agenda, in other words "If it makes money or power, do it" thats the way they think.......... scary innit?

Alan

Reminds me of a saying: Numbers don't lie, but liers can work with numbers. I'm not sure the governement is a lier, but the thought is scary and paranoid.

I agree with every thing TallTony is saying, but our planet is five hundred billion years old, thats enough time for dozens of civilizations to have come and gone with all their ecological impacts, Incas, Romans, Aztecs, all great civilizations, we have been around ten minutes in the grand scheme, evolution dictates who will live and who will die, not just us. The planet IS warming we all know that but this is more likely to be as a result of planetary movement and change not 4.4L engines. and while we are on the subject, how does our government tackle global warming ? . They TAX us in the veiled hope that this will make us reduce the usage of , planes and cars for instance, when it has already been proved that we as a nation of motorist would rather sell our kids than give up our cars and holidays. But hey what do they care as long as they get their money.

I’m not saying our government isn’t lying about pollution to earn some money. Who knows maybe they are. It that context, being convinced that they are sounds a bit paranoid. But again, maybe they are.
About the age of the earth, estimates are about 4.5 billion years. Which of course, is still a long time. And yes, many civilizations may have come and gone. Evolution behaves very curiously in a non-linear fashion, making leaps from time to time, creating the possibility for different civilizations. I think we may still be able to destroy the earth, despite the huge forces of evolution and things like gravity. Effects of atomic bombs are quite large as well. And it is easily conceivable how we can literally blow up the earth. To conclude, I have no idea how many civilizations there have been, how technologically advanced they were and what is going to happen next. And I wonder if someone really does.

point taken on the age of the earth. SOZ!, as far as can we destroy the Earth yes we can, we have the technology right now but thats not my point, the point is that although we are having some effect on the earth from use of cars, plane , boats, power stations, bombs ect, we arnt going to change it by increasing taxes as the government would have us believe. they are just cashing in on the fear of Global Warming, and as has already been said, toscrap our current cars (any car) and buy another"GREEN" one does more damage than running what we've got, but yet again instead of saying "Dont buy more cars, or telly's, or planes, etc, etc coz the manufacturing is damaging the environment" they say "increase the tax, or price so they get more, and more money. to give you an idea of how badly they waste OUR money Mr Pre***t wasted £14 billion on quote trying to re-nationalize the railway, and failed. How many millions of tons of co2 could have been saved if that had been invested in making the country cleaner, if thats what they really want to do..... , but they don't coz its a con to get more money.

I like the part where they ignore history to make their point.

The glaciers on Greenland are melting-----The Vikings Greenland was Ice free about 1000 years ago too. What caused that? Reindeer farts?

Adventure stories based on real life adventure of my youth included the Northwest Passage stories of the search for the legendary Ice free passage across the top of Canada from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Legends do usually have some basis--caribou farts on this side of the Atlantic?

The holes in the Ozone layer were recorded in 1928 and 1958 too.

I grew up with the threat of a coming Ice Age because "global" temperatures were slowly falling in the 50's. Winters were noticeably cooler then. (Except in stories of London with their habitual winter fog)

Supersonic aircraft were banned over the US in part because the exhaust gas would thicken the ozone layer and diminish sunlight and we would all starve in an apocalyptic haze of diminished sunlight

I am finally starting to hear the words NATURAL CYCLE used in public and it pleases me.

Just in case you have not noticed by now, I am not a believer

I see your point. You may be right. There is only one way to find out, let's wait and see.

Don't get me wrong though. I am all for conservation of resources within reason.

I try not to pollute more than I have to. I recycle what I can. I don't go off on aimless Joy rides just to burn fuel and I do try to plan my trips to minimize the the warm ups and such.

But I just have a bit of trouble with the monumental arrogance of "Pop Science". Those are the Money makers. How many "Scientists" does Global warming pay for?

The governments are in it for the control/power that justifies them getting larger and stronger. Taxes are really just another form of control. The overseer had a whip and the current government has taxes.

Damn, I have to get off this Soap box

Zitat

Damn, I have to get off this Soap box:

Nice one Terry. Everyone gets provoked sometimes. @ Tony, You knew you would stat something, didnt you :wink