Advice sought (1) - Washer Bottle

    Having seen a few other 8s recently (thanks guys), I now realise that my car has been deprived of its "protection plate" and bodged with a couple of grommets where the nylon nuts should go. Does anyone want to offer an opinion about whether its worth changing the entire bottle assembly? It doesn't leak, nor does it seem to get too hot - I'll do it, but are there any gotchas in changing this? Ta.
    SG

    Still strange though...


    Alex, thanks for the .png photo link. I have made the bottle water-tight by seating the grommets with Araldite and I'm going to take your advice that there's no point fixing something that ain't broke. (Too many other jobs need the cash). It's also cleaner now. :D But, there's an interesting academic point here and, since its Saturday afternoon and I've nothing better to do, here goes....


    Picture 1 shows the parts diagram.... picture 2 shows my bottle, with the offending studs/grommets arrowed.


    Looking inside the bottle at the actual holes, they appear to have been cut out with a circular saw-bit, and the circular piece of the bottle casing thus removed is still attached by an edge inside the bottle - imagine a hinge on an inward-opening circular door. Examination of the "door" piece ought to show evidence of the nylon studs which were once part of the standard bottle, but no trace exists, just plain "bottle-wall" material. I am fairly certain that this bottle never had studs in the positions shown by the arrows. So what vehicle is this part from? Whoever cut these holes must have done so for a reason. Was it the manufacturer who did it because this is not really a proper E31 part and in the correct application the holes are meant to be there? Or were they cut out afterwards by someone trying to adapt a part for the E31 who just got it hopelessly wrong?


    Either way, the holes are in the exact position where the studs should go and, therefore, I cannot contemplate fitting a protection plate because it would be left swinging on just the top two mountings with nothing to secure it at the bottom. As I say, the bottle is now water-tight, so I shall leave it until it becomes unmanageable, at which point I'll change the whole lot. Or, more likely, sooner, if I get to the stage where I can't bear to look at it!


    Its merely academic, but I am still curious to know why I have this particular set-up. A pint of the finest Sussex ale for the provider of the most compelling explanation... :)

    SG, a strange one and no mistake.
    I can't answer your question, but I have attached a pic of an unmolested installation.
    A point to note may be that there is a cylindrical thing under the washer bottle which also benefits from the protective heat shield. I don't know what it is exactly, but I think it may be something to do with the fuel system and as such perhaps should be protected, being as how it is right next to the manifold and all :shock: . Just a thought.

    Oh and another thing, I notice mine is sealed - only top up facility being for the 9l remote tank in the boot, whereas yours has a removeable cap. Does make me wonder if it is off a different spec E31 - perhaps with a different under bonnet layout and hence heat shield arrangement. I cannot think it is off any other model as it would be highly unlikely to conform to the inner wing underneath. Just another thought (two in one day :shock: )

    The top tank with the filler appears to be the US non-headlight washer version.


    The tank with the solid top is for the Euro version with headlight washer version with the tank under the spare.


    A question--does the Euro CSi use the fillable tank? The AHK controls are where the remote tank would be.

    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others. Mine sometimes feels that way.


    Terry


    1995 840Ci
    1991 850i
    Woodland Washington USA

    Interesting Question SG - I can't provide you with an answer. JUst a comment, like you my wash tank has the "soli" top, you'd be amazed at how long I puzzled over how to fill the bloody thing up before resorting to reading the f. manual thus solving yet another "RTFM" problem.


    Cheers
    :)

    SG, seems someone has attempted to bodge a different bottle onto your car. If you want to correct this I guess you will need to get a Euro bottle and heatshield (you also seem to be missing a pump??). I assume your 97 840 has the remote tank in the boot and h/lamp washers and as such the installation should look identical to mine - 99 840.

    Jason,


    You are not alone, you can just see that someone has attacked the top seal on mine in the past. Indeed, like you I was perplexed to begin with and did not link this bottle with a filler in the rear bumper!! :shock:


    mark

    Zitat von TerryY

    The top tank with the filler appears to be the US non-headlight washer version.


    The tank with the solid top is for the Euro version with headlight washer version with the tank under the spare.


    A question--does the Euro CSi use the fillable tank? The AHK controls are where the remote tank would be.


    Not all Euro 8s have headlight washers, they were optional on most (all?) models. I have no idea about the CSi rear water bottle though.

    Re the CSi rear washer bottle..
    This is from memory (as not with car at present) plus recent info supplied to me by "Arnie", another club CSi owner.


    On the CSi, the rear washer bottle is in the normal place, central to spare wheelwell.
    Haven't checked this myself yet, but according to Arnie (hope you don't mind me quoting you ?) the AHK controller is in the inner rear wing near the battery (right side, drivers side UK).


    My (CSi) front washer bottle has also been "modified" by someone in the past. There's a hole drilled in the centre of the sealed cap.
    In the past, remember someone saying they had seen this done on other 8s, something about bleeding/draining the system??

    More confused than even....


    Guys thanks for all the replies. So, er..... am I to understand that my car should have another water bottle in the boot??? :?
    For completeness, this is a UK-registered RHD 840Ci, VIN 66548, and the build sheet shows the headlamp washer option was not ordered - born out by absence of jets on the nose cone. From some of the above posts it seems that, even if I were to decide to get another bottle, I might be in for another nasty surprise when I come to fit it.... oo-er.
    SG

    1997 E31 840Ci Sport
    2009 Mini Cooper
    2008 Toyota RAV-4 XT-R

    Do every act of your life as if it were your last.

    Spruce
    Don't know how it should be arranged on your model but, suppose the first thing to check is - do you have a rear washer bottle ?
    Firstly there should be the filler cap for washer bottle in rear bumper.
    Then the washer bottle should be in spare wheelwell. Remove spare, and you should see it there.
    If those are both present, make sure there are still hoses from the rear bottle towards the front (as your front bottle has been modified, the rear arrangement could also have been modified?)


    Incidentally, I'm assuming your washers do work ? Just wondering because of what appears to be absence of front pump on yours.
    This is something thats puzzling me on mine - front bottle never appears to have fluid in it, and yet washers work !!
    Could it be that my front pump is not working and yet the system will still work fom the rear bottle (seperate pump?)
    If this is possible, maybe yours is also working from rear bottle/pump ??
    Just a thought - I may be completely wrong on this ......!!

    Zitat von MB

    SG, a strange one and no mistake.
    I can't answer your question, but I have attached a pic of an unmolested installation.
    A point to note may be that there is a cylindrical thing under the washer bottle which also benefits from the protective heat shield. I don't know what it is exactly, but I think it may be something to do with the fuel system and as such perhaps should be protected, being as how it is right next to the manifold and all :shock: . Just a thought.


    That cylinder chaps is the charcoal canister that is full of fuel vapour from the emissions control system so you may not be too concerned with the heat shield protecting the washer bottle but I would be concerned about a litre of petrol vapour 4" from my exhaust manifold!


    8Tech.

    Re: More confused than even....


    Zitat von sprucegoose

    Guys thanks for all the replies. So, er..... am I to understand that my car should have another water bottle in the boot??? :?
    For completeness, this is a UK-registered RHD 840Ci, VIN 66548, and the build sheet shows the headlamp washer option was not ordered - born out by absence of jets on the nose cone. From some of the above posts it seems that, even if I were to decide to get another bottle, I might be in for another nasty surprise when I come to fit it.... oo-er.
    SG


    No, you won't have the extra bottle in the boot as you don't have headlight washers. The reason is that the headlight washers use a lot of water (bigger pump and piping to generate the required pressure) therefore headlight washers require a second bottle to provide the required capacity.


    This is confirmed by the fact that your washer bottle has a standard removable cap to refill it.

    Ah .... this is all making more sense now (thought I might be wrong !) :roll:


    So for Spruce (no headlight washers), independant front washer bottle with refillable cap.
    That front bottle then, should have its own pump(?) - where is Spruce's pump ??


    This 8 washer system is confusing ! Think I'll start another thread on some of my questions and problems ........

    The pump for the windscreen washers is at the rear of the bottle, just in front of the wheel arch. You can't see it from the front. This is the same layout as the headlight washer model, the only differences being that the front of the bottle has a second pump for the headlight washers (this is the empty circular space on the standard bottle), it has a little nozzle on the top at the rear which is connected to the pipe from the rear bottle, and of course the lack of a removable cap to refill it.

    So then, if we have this right, SG has all the bits he should have except the heatshield, it's attaching washers (and two lower mounting spigots).
    I am still wondering why the non-headlamp washer bottle here was lacking the lower heat shield spigots originally - IIRC. I would have thought the two bottles are identical mouldings, finished as required. :?


    Advice: Fit a new heatshield pronto - some sort of spacer behind the lower edge for now - to protect the fuel system charcoal canister.
    Replace fillable bottle at a convenient point with one that has 4 spigots. :wink:

    Zitat von MB

    So then, if we have this right, SG has all the bits he should have except the heatshield, it's attaching washers (and two lower mounting spigots).
    I am still wondering why the non-headlamp washer bottle here was lacking the lower heat shield spigots originally - IIRC. I would have thought the two bottles are identical mouldings, finished as required. :?


    Advice: Fit a new heatshield pronto - some sort of spacer behind the lower edge for now - to protect the fuel system charcoal canister.
    Replace fillable bottle at a convenient point with one that has 4 spigots. :wink:


    Agreed. I have no idea why the two lower heat shield mounts appear to have been replaced with rubber grommets. I've never seen one like that -- both the standard and headlight washer versions of the bottle are identical other than the differences I mentioned above, so the heat shield and mounts are the same on both.


    The easiest and neatest solution would be to source a replacement washer bottle with the heat shield attached. Trying to properly repair your existing bottle is probably more effort than it's worth. Shouldn't be too expensive to pick a good one up used, as there's not much demand for them. Even a new one (with no pump or level sensor) probably isn't that expensive, but if you go for this option make sure it includes the heat shield.

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