The E31 the illegitimate son of the BMW family?

I know many non 8 series owners who would have an 8 series in a heart beat but for reasons like Too young/insurance too high/can't get the kids in / can't afford one etc all pretty much the reasons Bmw only sold 30 odd thousand examples.

It's a very unique club;-)

Zitat von stevep840;80245

I know many non 8 series owners who would have an 8 series in a heart beat but for reasons like Too young/insurance too high/can't get the kids in / can't afford one etc all pretty much the reasons Bmw only sold 30 odd thousand examples.

It's a very unique club;-)

Agree with all comments but after going to the meeting at Gaydon it was plain to see how many people hold the E31 in such high esteem.
I have had a number of different BMW models over the years, E30, E32 but none have given the satisfaction that the E31 gives.
I was chatting to Nifty today and we both agreed , that even if we happened to win the lottery, we would spend the money on our E31's. There is just nothing out there that does anything for me!

Zitat von Noggie;80244

......"yes it's a very nice car.... but not really a BMW"......

Well, I think we all know some of the complicated answers to this. The car was, in many ways, about 10 years ahead of its time, so of course it was out of place with the BMW line-up at the time. Its technology was a show-case of what was possible, but made the car very expensive in comparison to others.

However, its engines are definetely BMW and so is the drive-train.

Its mcpherson-strut front suspension is the same as all other BMWs. Its Z-axle muli-link rear was a new thing at the time, but has been the basis of many other BMWs since.

The bodywork, while quite individual in appearance, has the same type of construction, including even many specific weld lines, that you would find in later cars, such as the e38.

In fact, its interior fit and finish is quite similar to what you would find in an e38 and is much removed from the e32 or the e24, old 6-series.

Multiplex wiring came of its own in later BMWs and now, in the latest 7-series, you will find a new incarnation of AHK.

Fundamentally, one problem has been that the packaging is kind of 1980's, so it's a big car but without much useable space. But, even saying "big car" is not quite correct by today's standards, as cars have continued to grow and the 8 is about the same size as a new 6-series, which even has a higher roofline to accomodate tall people, which is not so easy in an 8.

So, we have (perhaps the best of German/Italian) late-80's styling with mid-90's technology in a very expensive (at the time) package.

Therefore, the car will be difficult for people to pidgeon-hole, because it doesn't quite fit with the other late-80's designs in terms of technology and looks a little unusual for a late 90's car, given small 80's details such as the wheel arch blisters.

Also, it's a car that needs to be seen in the flesh and driven to be appreciated. Personally, I think that the pictures in the sales brochures did not manage to capture its best lines and did not make the car look attractive.

Anyway, it's better this way. A total of a little more that 30,000 8-series were produced over about 10 years. No one will say that a 3-series is not a BMW, but they make some 300,000 of those PER YEAR. I know which I'd rather have.

If it was supposed to be a rival to the Mercedes SL (R129), they made just under 205,000 of those in 13 years.

Hey, many interesting points Egil,

With your first point, other forums do not interest me. If you cut me half, you would not see a BMW roundel. There are only a handful of BMW’s I would consider owning and the 8 is one of them, which I why I have defaulted (temporarily) from a famous Stuttgart marque. I am not in one bit interested in mass produced (non-M) 3 and 5 series et al; or of someone fitting angel eyes and M badges to a 520. This is what I will expect to find in other forums. So, I stick around here.

I had many Porsche 944’s and I got fed-up with people saying it’s not a real Porsche – especially from the 911 group.

I couldn’t think of a finer expression of BMW's engineering prowess at the time. The motoring press of the 90’s gave the E31 a hard time – especially critical of references to the strapline ‘ulitimate driving machine’. Thing is, they didn’t get it. There are two sorts of driving, track driving, and cross continent driving. If someone told me to drive to Italy, I’d hop in my 8 like a shot. It is the ultimate mile-cruncher (and poser when you get there) and the press missed that circa 1990.

I do think it totally looks like a BMW though. The grille, the wheels, the interior, the arches, the tail lamps; all pure BMW in execution.

I think the 8 is just on the cusp of finding classic status.

Just getting back from Gaydon proves this. I heard multiple comments about the 8 from all people and its all admiration. Many wouldn’t buy one, but they are all happy to see them. Also, I followed another 8 out of the Gaydon grounds, think it was ‘robmarrs’ and I felt so proud to be running an 8. 10 times more proud most of the machinery there. People were stopping to take photos of me and ‘robmarrs’ leaving the grounds! What a change from leaving a Porsche doo in a 944 and a sense of disaproval from the air-cooled boys!

Be prepared for 8 popularity to only increase; accelerated by BMW screwing up current designs like X1's and 6series etc......

PS - If the title of this thread is 'illegitimate son of BMW', then I would say M1 for the Lamborghini input and the Z1 for the random styling. Both are 10x more illegitimate than the 8er!

Interesting post and very true it seems. The most recent BMW not wanting to know about the 8 series, is an ad they have running on tv at the moment. They have quite a number of "old" BMW's featuring in the ad - they flash up all the "numbers" i.e. 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, Z...but no 8.

From reading other posts here and elsewhere, BMW appear to be rather ashamed of the 8 series generally. We know that they only recently put out pics of the M8, as it was planned and supposedly, it's only being shown in their museum recently - the first 8 series to really sit in the museum.

I understand that it came out at completely the wrong time i.e. during a rather unpleasant recession (just like now!), it was rather expensive and didn't really fit the mainstream BMW mould but it really doesn't seem to sit well with them.

Maybe for that reason, those of us who are still in awe (certainly me anyway!) of this fab motor, are helped sub-consciously, by the fact that it's not mainstream BMW and it is regarded as quirky. I for one, wouldn't be a fan of BMW's in general (they have produced some gems, no question, but I wouldn't be rushing out to buy one) but the 8 series is a different kettle of fish altogether - the design is just perfect in my opinion. If they badge said something else, I'll still have one - it's the look that gets me but also the fact that they are rare, underrated, not well known, and somehow disowned by their own family!
Anyway, that's just my pennies worth for anyone interested!

The big difference between the E32 7-Series and the E31 is that the E32 was logical progression from the E23 and the E32, in turn, progressed to the E38. The lineage is obvious. Looking at the E38 you can see, in retrospect, the lines of the E23 and E32. The E32, E38, E39 et al look like BMW's because we are still surrounded by thousand of similar models.

The E31 does not have an extending lineage, it is a limb of the BMW tree that withered. For that reason it stands alone and has no modern progeny to familiarise. It really only has antecedence in the E32, any owner of the E32 would feel immediately at home sitting in the drivers seat.

However, at this event at Duxford earlier this month:



...it was the E31's that were getting a lot of the admiration, the usual comment being 'I've always wanted one of those, but could never afford it'. I've not found it being any more expensive to own than the E32 or E38, it shares a lot of the drive train, electronics and suspension. It is as economical as both the E32 and E32 V8's right up until the introduction of the Vanos system in the late E38's. It suffers the same problems with suspension, cooling system and electronics, and you might expect that it would demand the same price as the V8 and V12 E32's and E38's.

But it doesn't, and that is a good indication of its desirability in respect to those models. It is worth 3-times more than an E38 of the same year, and that must say something about its enduring popularity.

Another good thing about e31 ownership is owners say things like this:

Zitat

The E31 does not have an extending lineage, it is a limb of the BMW tree that withered. For that reason it stands alone and has no modern progeny to familiarise. It really only has antecedence in the E32

I can't recall seeing the word "antecedence" on the old e36 boards I used to frequent... loving your vocab Timm!

My wife had the cheek to say "sell you car we dont need 2 cars"

To which I replied

If I have to sell my car yes my car i will hold it against you for ever!

Harsh but true.

You got to love the 8, I drove mine this morning for the first time since June and loved every minute of it

ive noticed this aswel...few more points ive noticed are when browsing for parts on some website it will have a list of all bmw's except the 8..also in my local bmw dealership they sell keyrings for 1,3,5,6,7 ,x3,x5,x6,z3,z4,m's but no 8series.

im putting it down to jealousey......

We delude ourselves that BMW give a damn about us or the cars, the truth is that they are marketing experts and are only interested in £££. They announced the other day that BMW made £2 Billion profit in the first quarter of this year!!

I don't know about 'illegitimate' but I think we all get a good shafting!!

Zitat von Noggie;80244

The E31 the illegitimate son of the BMW family? [...] "wow, thats a really nice lineup... but they shouldn't have had that 8'er there... it just looks out of place". [...]

My guess is that it is a bit about individualism. Or uniformity, depending on your point of view. Most humans seek uniformity of some kind to demonstrate affiliation to certain groups. Maybe it's the genetic inheritance. If man wasn't civilized its social structure would be the pack, and the odd one who stands out would... at least arouse suspicions.

The 8 series is the odd one out, no discussion there. Many people like the 8 series but still think it looks out of place and see that as a negative. Do they have the same taste but lack that bit of individualism that is needed to really embrace the car? Do they fear to be the odd one out?

How individual is BMW Individual? Is your 3 series really individual when you order it in "jaune helios" instead of "dakargelb"? Somewhat, yes, but it's still a 3 series with all its implications. It's a very interesting phenomenon that individuality is at the same time desireable and feared. Is it cultural? Is it zeitgeist?

I have always been the odd one out. And I don't care.

...Mike

P.S.: There are only three BMWs that I really like: the E31, the Z1 and the E38 L7. Well...

Hi everyone,

This is an interresting question is our 8 serie a part of the BMW scheme?
Well a few years ago i attended to the Paris auto show. Accompanied by an 8er we went to the BMW stand. We asked to talk to the man in charge of the BMW stand. I introduced myself as the french president of the 8 serie car club. The only response i had was "8 serie? What is that?" All is said in that answer! Franck and i were disappointed because since we didn't order a new BMW we were not considered at all. Then the manager left and we never had a chance to see him again. He was back to the private saloon were the customers were invited but we were not.
I have also seen several documentaries about BMW and different books but the 8 serie was never mentionned. STRANGE no?
Anyway i don't care because i just love my 8 serie and so you guys do and that's what matters!

Fabrice

Interstingly, my friend was in Germany last week on business and decided to do the BMW Museum.

Every BMW was in there apart from the 8. I told him to take a picture of an 8 and it just wasn't there. He said there wasn't even a picture of one on the wall.

This, for a car that nearly bankrupted BMW, I just can't understand. Surely BMW are proud of the 8?

I don't think they are the slightest bit proud of the 8 To them it was a disaster.

The range at launch was slated from the moment the press got hold of it and personally, I believe, totally misunderstood. Fuel prices were out of control and coupled with only a V12 at launch I think they were on a hiding to nothing.

When the XK8 was released in 1996 I stupidly paid over the odds for one at the time. When I came to change it, as the kids were growing up , I opted for a 4 door saloon XJR. Both reasonable cars in their own right but neither of them had the presence or build quality of the 8 series. I then bought an ex demo T plate 840 and in my opinion [ I was doing 50000 miles a year] it blew them away. To this day I want for no other car!

Looking at sales figures I think BMW were lucky that the XK8 was launched when it was, as sales increased probably due to the 'coupe' factor. I recall reading many road tests between the SL500, XK8 and 840. Most gave the Jaguar and Mercedes the nod over the 840 but the BMW had been around in V8 form already for 4 years. The design had been on the roads for 7!

The major saving grace for the 8, is that it was never replaced. Normally when a new model is released the older version ages pretty quickly. We are blessed that BMW didn't launch a replacement!

It's certainly one of the non main stream BMWs but it's undoubtedly a BMW.
It's rarity has helped it gain "classic" status quicker than most cars but it also scares people off. The reputation almost made me ignore the 8 but by chance I saw one for sale and it grabbed my attention. I was already a BMW fan and now I own the 8 I'm an even bigger fan.

The 8 is best appreciated by people who've owned them. I had the dealership service agent comment that another customer and ex 8 owner was admiring mine whilst it was parked outside, saying it was the best car they had ever owned.

The Z1 is probably even more of an oddball BMW, I've only ever seen one of them on the road in recent years and that was at a Z4 meet.

Zitat von Mike;80279

I have always been the odd one out. And I don't care.

...Mike

P.S.: There are only three BMWs that I really like: the E31, the Z1 and the E38 L7. Well...

Hear Hear!

Zitat von smileynialley;80274

ive noticed this aswel...few more points ive noticed are when browsing for parts on some website it will have a list of all bmw's except the 8..also in my local bmw dealership they sell keyrings for 1,3,5,6,7 ,x3,x5,x6,z3,z4,m's but no 8series.

im putting it down to jealousey......

perhaps you need 1 like this.

Hello,

I can still remember the first time I heard about the 8 series.

I was 12 at the time and I asked my father, a BMW salesman during that period, to describe it to me.

We didn't have access to the Internet in 1989 and there were fewer car spyshots in the magazines than today!

I was told the car had a front reminding the M1, wide arches like the E30 M3 and a rear familiar with the 5 and 7 series of the time. It had to be a "proper" BMW.

I've been a BMW fan for as long as I can remember. I have owned 2 E30s, an E36 M3 Cabrio, a Z3 M Roadster and I currently drive an E46 316 Ti Compact (another "strange" BMW) along with my 850CSi. The E31 is without a doubt a true BMW, with its flaws and its qualities.

I was not disapointed when I first saw the 8 Series and I dreamed of having one from the start. (now, I dream of an E46 M3 too!.. )

If you think about it, some of the most collectable BMWs today (507, M1, ...) didn't seem to fit in the range in their time...

I don't think that BMW is ashamed of the 8 series. It's just too recent to be already considered as a classic.

However, it is shameful that some people representing BMW do not know what an 8 Series (even less a CSi) is.

Keep enjoying your 8s; it will be perceived as it deserves one day.

Cheers,

Alex

For me it is everything it stands for and the vision BMW had at the time of producing the 'ultimate driving machine'. To a certain extent it was designed and manufactured without compromise, it was meant to be BMW's flagship car.
BMW would not think of doing the same, regardless of the economic climate.
In the end I suppose BMW were disappointed because it was a 'failure' in terms of critical reviews and numbers sold, and for this reason BMW continues to shy away from the 8.
However with time I think they will see that what they produced was true classic, a bit like the child you are disappointed with, but in the end comes good.
I wanted something that was fantastic value for money, stood out, looked good, and was different, and to a certain extent was a little bit more than 'just a car'.
I did contemplate getting an M3/SL/6, but I never drive 'too' fast anyway, and I wanted something different, something that stood out and the 8 was the car for me.
I still enjoy seeing the look on someones face when I pull up, and also when you pull close to other drivers in their 'performance' cars.
In my opinion even an Aston Martin does not grab your attention as much as the 8, primarily because they are so rare.
The 8 is a piece of automotive history, a bit like a Jag E-type, it is a supercar (MSN's top 50) and represents a car manufactured without compromise by one of the greatest automobile manufacturers of all time.